Droynes outside of Droyne society (M2e)

[Whitehart]

How do Droyne function mechanically outside of Droyne society? Specifically, these questions are in regard to Droyne created using the rules in AoCS 2 and were since ousted from their oytrip.

I have questions about two things:

1) Droyne do not have a SOC score, so what do they use if (during creation) they want to attempt to be a Noble, get a commission, or need a SOC survival/advancement roll?

2) How do certain Droyne skills translate. I understand that Flight, Art (Droyne), and Caste are straightforward; and Appeal may not work at all because its use would be alien to non-Droyne.

But how might Outsider work? Akin to streetwise maybe? Or Prediction, which gives DMs to a Leader. Would that give those DMs to an outsider enacting or formulating a plan?

 

[Sigtrygg]

Droyne that are caste out suicide.

While certain Droyne castes can function outside of Droyne society (the Sport, sometimes a Leader or a Drone) they are still part of it, if they are cast out they kill themselves. On rare occasion a Droyne will resist this.

"Krinaytsyu: It is a central facet of Droyne society and behavior that the individual exists for the good of the community, rather than the more customary human view to the contrary. For this reason, an individual deemed to be no longer worthwhile to the oytrjp customarily undergoes krinaytsyu (voluntary death). The individual spends several hours in meditation, making use of the Droyne mastery of psionic self-awareness to turn off the body and mind. The individual dies painlessly and entirely by the force of its own will.
Krinaytsyu is expected of all Droyne, but there have always been a small number who resist the self-destructive urge which accompanies the decision of society to withdraw its mantle from them. A few Droyne find some other goal or drive supplanting the basic need to serve the oytrip, and this new desire becomes the new driving force in their lives. They postpone or ignore the calling of krinaytsyu, possibly for years, to pursue their new goal.
Such Droyne become known as krinaytsoyni (the deathless), a term of scorn among the Droyne still bound to the oytrip. Krinaytsoynin live outside the bounds of Droyne society. They are loners, without the support of dreskay or oytrip. Leaders, sports and drones are most often able to make the transition lower castes have too strong a need for leadership and direction to comfortably leave their family or community. Such individuals may wander for some time in pursuit of their personal goals. They are characteristically melancholy, lonely, and obsessed by their needs, and ever prone in the face of failure or disappointment to go through with the krinaytsyu they passed up before.
Krinaytsyu is the fate of most of those whose useful service to the community has ended (through age, or through the prediction of the coyns). It is also chosen by those Droyne who are cut off from their oytripin or dreskayin. It is also customary for those who challenge a leader's judgement and are proven wrong to commit krinaytsyu. Leaders and other individuals in positions of great responsibility choose voluntary death when decisions turn out to be disastrous, thus clearing the way for new individuals to take their positions and solve the problems arising from the bad decision."

 

[Whitehart]

Droyne that are caste out suicide.

While certain Droyne castes can function outside of Droyne society (the Sport, sometimes a Leader or a Drone) they are still part of it, if they are cast out they kill themselves. On rare occasion a Droyne will resist this.

"Krinaytsyu: It is a central facet of Droyne society and behavior that the individual exists for the good of the community, rather than the more customary human view to the contrary. For this reason, an individual deemed to be no longer worthwhile to the oytrjp customarily undergoes krinaytsyu (voluntary death). The individual spends several hours in meditation, making use of the Droyne mastery of psionic self-awareness to turn off the body and mind. The individual dies painlessly and entirely by the force of its own will.
Krinaytsyu is expected of all Droyne, but there have always been a small number who resist the self-destructive urge which accompanies the decision of society to withdraw its mantle from them. A few Droyne find some other goal or drive supplanting the basic need to serve the oytrip, and this new desire becomes the new driving force in their lives. They postpone or ignore the calling of krinaytsyu, possibly for years, to pursue their new goal.
Such Droyne become known as krinaytsoyni (the deathless), a term of scorn among the Droyne still bound to the oytrip. Krinaytsoynin live outside the bounds of Droyne society. They are loners, without the support of dreskay or oytrip. Leaders, sports and drones are most often able to make the transition lower castes have too strong a need for leadership and direction to comfortably leave their family or community. Such individuals may wander for some time in pursuit of their personal goals. They are characteristically melancholy, lonely, and obsessed by their needs, and ever prone in the face of failure or disappointment to go through with the krinaytsyu they passed up before.
Krinaytsyu is the fate of most of those whose useful service to the community has ended (through age, or through the prediction of the coyns). It is also chosen by those Droyne who are cut off from their oytripin or dreskayin. It is also customary for those who challenge a leader's judgement and are proven wrong to commit krinaytsyu. Leaders and other individuals in positions of great responsibility choose voluntary death when decisions turn out to be disastrous, thus clearing the way for new individuals to take their positions and solve the problems arising from the bad decision."

There is a whole section about creating Droyne Travellers and a chapter about roleplaying ones who were cast out. I doubt these would have been included if all outcast Droyne suicided.

 

[Sigtrygg]

My quote is from the original Traveller Droyne Alien Module, take the Mongoose version with a pinch of salt since it lacks a lot of detail.

Let's see what GURPS Traveller had to say:

"But I’m Too Young to Die!
Krinaytsyu (voluntary death – see p. 70) is expected of all Droyne in the appropriate circumstances, but there are always a few who resist the urge to self-destruction even after the community withdraws its support. Some find another goal supplanting the basic need to serve their oytrip, and this becomes the new driving force in their lives. (In game terms, an Obsession or a Higher Purpose would fit the bill.) They postpone or ignore the call to krinaytsyu, perhaps for years, in pursuit of their new goal.
Such Droyne are known as the krinaytsoyni (the Deathless), a term of scorn among normal Droyne. They live outside society, without the support of family or community, and are characteristically melancholy, lonely wanderers, obsessive and prone to kill themselves (or at least threaten to do so) in the face of failure or disappointment.
Leaders, Sports, and Drones are most often able to make this transition; the lower castes have too strong a need for leadership and company to survive without their family’s support.
Read Larry Niven’s Protector for one possible insight into the mind of a Deathless One."

"Aging and Voluntary Death
It is a central tenet of Droyne society and behavior that the individual exists for the good of the community, rather than the reverse, which is the customary view among Imperial Humans. For this reason, a Droyne who is no longer valuable to the oytrip usually undergoes krinaytsyu (voluntary death), unless he can be “traded” to another oytrip who need members of his caste, which benefits everyone and is the preferred option.
Otherwise, he spends several hours in meditation, making use of his powers of psionic self-awareness to deactivate his body and mind. He dies painlessly, and entirely by the force of his own will.
This is the fate customarily chosen by those whose usefulness to the community has been undermined by age, infirmity, or an ill-omened reading of the coyns (see Mysticism, below). It is also traditional for one who challenges a Leader’s judgment and is proven to be drastically wrong to commit krinaytsyu.
Leaders themselves may choose voluntary death after a disastrous decision, clearing the way for new Leaders to resolve the issues. Finally, a Droyne who is permanently cut off from his oytrip or dreskay (see pp. 76-77), beyond hope of rejoining it, is bereft of purpose and usually wills his own death in this way.
This sort of death holds less terror for a Droyne than it would for a Human; this is partly because the average Droyne values the needs of the community above his own, and partly because the custom of using psionics in education means that significant portions of a Droyne’s experience and personality live on in the next generation – the living Droyne has fragmentary memories of earlier lives, and the dying one knows that some of his memories will live on in the next generation.
A Droyne wishing to perform krinaytsyu must maintain the Concentrate maneuver for at least 30 minutes x HT. The process may be halted at any time if he finds a new reason to live."

 

[Whitehart]

I appreciate the information you’re providing. However, I’m not determining how likely it is for a Droyne to suicide after leaving the oytrip.

I just want opinions on the usefulness of Droyne-specific skills when used by a Droyne who has been outcast but has not suicided.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Ahh, sorry I have misunderstood your OP.

Yes a player character Droyne will have drives and behaviours that overcome the impulse/drive to suicide. They will seek new purpose, they may even come to recognise their fellow Travellers as their new family.

Can a renegade Droyne continue in character generation and apply for human careers - I would say yes. So what to do about Soc? Either set it at 2 initially or let the player roll - let's see the player explain how their Droyne was knighted...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Ahh, sorry I have misunderstood your OP.

Yes a player character Droyne will have drives and behaviours that overcome the impulse/drive to suicide. They will seek new purpose, they may even come to recognise their fellow Travellers as their new family.

Can a renegade Droyne continue in character generation and apply for human careers - I would say yes. So what to do about Soc? Either set it at 2 initially or let the player roll - let's see the player explain how their Droyne was knighted...

Maybe not start at 2. Perhaps 7 for average? Or maybe a few down?

 

[Whitehart]

Maybe not start at 2. Perhaps 7 for average? Or maybe a few down?

I’m considering starting it off at a 1D+2 to match all the other adult Droyne characteristics.

Or maybe 1D + their Outsider (Imperial) skill

 

[Sigtrygg]

I’m considering starting it off at a 1D+2 to match all the other adult Droyne characteristics.

Or maybe 1D + their Outsider (Imperial) skill

I like that.

 

[Saladman]

1) Droyne do not have a SOC score, so what do they use if (during creation) they want to attempt to be a Noble, get a commission, or need a SOC survival/advancement roll?

My answer for my own game would be set Soc to 2 when needed for survival/advancement. And that an outcast droyne just wouldn't and shouldn't seek out and expect an Imperium noble career or commission as an officer anyway; scout, drifter, or worker seem more likely.

I don't particularly expect everyone to rule that way, but it's not too crazy either.

2) How do certain Droyne skills translate. I understand that Flight, Art (Droyne), and Caste are straightforward; and Appeal may not work at all because its use would be alien to non-Droyne.

But how might Outsider work? Akin to streetwise maybe? Or Prediction, which gives DMs to a Leader. Would that give those DMs to an outsider enacting or formulating a plan?

Sometimes two or more skills may count for a roll, and you can use the best one you have. (As in Broker or Streetwise to find a particular item.) I would give the benefit of the doubt for reasonable alternate uses of droyne skills, yet simultaneously not worry about converting them to core skills and saying they count as other skills in all respects. If they come out more limited, so be it.

 

[Whitehart]

My answer for my own game would be set Soc to 2 when needed for survival/advancement. And that an outcast droyne just wouldn't and shouldn't seek out and expect an Imperium noble career or commission as an officer anyway; scout, drifter, or worker seem more likely.

I just noticed the picture they use for the Lieutenant in the Imperial Navy book is a Droyne. So far as I know, there are no Droyne that did not grow-up in an oytrip so I was wondering how that would happen.

 

[Saladman]

Artists, what can you do?

Or, a more forgiving and possibly better GM than me.

I guess in the whole history of the Third Imperium there could be one. And there'd probably be some in-universe reason that made sense to everyone involved at the time. So I guess I might leave it up to the dice if I thought the player understood "okay, but that's actually a Big Thing and might come up in play in ways that sometimes inconvenience you." But just a droyne officer and no one notices anything odd seems like not engaging with the setting.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Could be a liaison "officer" from the Five Sisters subsector...

 

[Whitehart]

Artists, what can you do?

Or, a more forgiving and possibly better GM than me.

I guess in the whole history of the Third Imperium there could be one. And there'd probably be some in-universe reason that made sense to everyone involved at the time. So I guess I might leave it up to the dice if I thought the player understood "okay, but that's actually a Big Thing and might come up in play in ways that sometimes inconvenience you." But just a droyne officer and no one notices anything odd seems like not engaging with the setting.

I never said anything about no one noticing that it would be odd. But odd things definitely happen in Charted Space.

There’s an adventure where a TL2 medieval king invites space travellers to teach his son how to act.

 

[rinku]

The books (especially the older editions which did not have multiple career pathways) mostly assume these Droyne go from Droyne prior Career generation to Adventuring. It IS highly unlikely for various reasons that an outcast Droyne would be able to function in an alien career.

However, I can't see why you can't use the Drifter option from the CRB to give them more terms if you want. Wanderer seems to map to the situation pretty accurately.

As far as the more general question about Soc... that comes up with other beings, in particular the Vargr, who have (the admittedly similar) Charisma, and Robots/Androids, who usually have Soc 0 and use INT for Soc tasks where that doesn't apply. Clones and slaves sometimes, too.

I don't have the current edition Droyne rules, so can't say for sure. But if there's no outright prohibition about continuing as a Drifter, I'd allow it.

 

[ottarrus]

To the OP:
Droyne are entirely outside the Human social system and are ineligible for careers as Nobles or, for that matter, as officers in a Human military. Any Droyne with such ambitions is certifiably insane.
Droyne simply don't care what the humans are up to. They live to serve the larger community of Droyne and everything else can go kick rocks. In the event that a Droyne is exiled from it's Oytrip, it needs to find a purpose in life that equates to it's former role in Droyne society. Without that motivation they krinaytsyu, as you've previously read.
This does not mean that a Droyne cannot find purpose within Human society, it's just incredibly difficult for them to do. Most castes would have to climb an enormous hill to be able to fit in with Humans. Battling Warriors might seem like a good fit for an Army except that their training is instinctive and largely psionically imprinted... When battle develops they know where they're cultural doctrine and training tells them to be and they go there without orders and without fuss, but would be completely confused by a Human NCO or officer giving them orders contrary to what Droyne culture tells them to do. Leader castes make decisions based on what's good of the unit it leads, but it doesn't discuss why... it just gives orders and expects them to be successfully obeyed.
These are the reasons why a Sport caste is most likely to resist krinaytsyu... they're used to operating by themselves and separated by the Oytrip it serves. As for 'post-Oytrip careers', I suggest Rogues, Drifters, Citizen [Colonist] and Scouts. Those careers are fairly forgiving of 'weirdos'. But any highly structured hierarchy will have a very difficult time with a Lone Droyne.

 

[rinku]

I'd potentially add Agent as another career, though Law Enforcement is unlikely.

A further observation - Sports do go on missions outside the Oytrip, on Oytrip business. It's not completely impossible that one might end up accompanying Humans for a while, maybe years, without actually leaving the Oytrip as such, and might *appear* to have joined the Scouts or a criminal gang, or whatever.

So even within the normal Droyne character generation, you can justify any unusual Droyne presence that you might find in previous publications. I'm guessing there might be Events that touch on that?

 

[Whitehart]

The books (especially the older editions which did not have multiple career pathways) mostly assume these Droyne go from Droyne prior Career generation to Adventuring. It IS highly unlikely for various reasons that an outcast Droyne would be able to function in an alien career.

However, I can't see why you can't use the Drifter option from the CRB to give them more terms if you want. Wanderer seems to map to the situation pretty accurately.

As far as the more general question about Soc... that comes up with other beings, in particular the Vargr, who have (the admittedly similar) Charisma, and Robots/Androids, who usually have Soc 0 and use INT for Soc tasks where that doesn't apply. Clones and slaves sometimes, too.

I don't have the current edition Droyne rules, so can't say for sure. But if there's no outright prohibition about continuing as a Drifter, I'd allow it.

I appreciate your thoughts. I’m still trying to ascertain the potential usefulness of Droyne-specific skills (e.g. Outsider or Prediction) when not in the oytrip.