Drinax Campaign Treasure Ship (Spoilers)

[PsiTraveller]

Just a question to anyone running the Drinax campaign. The campaign I am running is currently doing the Treasure ship. There has been a buildup to the battle at Exe by Hroal Irontooth against the Treasure Ship.

My group did not want to engage Irontooth's warship without a lot of help, so they contacted Petyr Vallis and offered to help him take out Irontooth. A three sided battle ended up taking place as the group and allies waited until Irontooth had hammered the Treasure ship and started boarding and THEN the group attacked. The weakened warship was attacked and boarded by the players and Vallis' men boarded the warship. It was not heavily guarded because its troops were fighting on the Treasure ship. The group secured the warship and sent troops across to the Treasure ship and a 3 way fight took place on the treasure ship. The pirates took control of the ship and forced all sides to stand down.

Hasty repairs were made and fuel transferred to the treasure ship and the ship was jumped to an empty hex to allow time to loot it. So the group ended up stealing the ships.

Anyone else had similar experiences? What did your groups do?

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

Questions for mongoose: Does this adventure have an errata published? I am thinking about running this adventure but I have one big question: it looks like the huge massively protected inner vault of the ship contains a total of only about 70Mcr credits worth of value. If this is the case, then the contents are not even worth that of a Subsidized Merchant starship sold brand new. This makes it really hard to justify all the build up and cost to protect unless this is only meant to be a consolation prize because it's normal high value was already removed and these are just a few leftovers. Also, 80 tons of contents are described even though the description says it only holds 60 tons, which is it?

I am thinking if the goal of the Travellers is to create a new polity, maybe the vault contents should make them able to afford a capital ship with spinal mount. Like 60 tons of rhodium.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I am thinking if the goal of the Travellers is to create a new polity, maybe the vault contents should make them able to afford a capital ship with spinal mount. Like 60 tons of rhodium.

Remember, this adventure pops up early in the campaign, so rewards should not be astronomical. When they have just started out MCr70-odd is a lot, especially when you are thinking about Harrier repairs or getting kit for the Travellers. Also, depending on how they do things, the Travellers might end up with an entire Treasure Ship

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

I hear you about not wanting to give too much too soon, but to fit all the hype of an actual "treasure ship" I think I want to put a reward description like that on the scale of a Spanish treasure ship being captured in real life pirate history, which would be massive. I don't think any self-respecting group of adventurers is not going to want to try to take the whole ship rather than just looting it a smidge, so that would be the plan and outcome I would most likely prepare for from my group. Thus, as in real life, the contents of a vault should exceed the value of the Vault itself else you are spending more money on a container than on what it contains.

Do you think it might cause any plot problems to simply postpone this adventure toward later in the campaign when it would be more appropriate to offer higher rewards? I am thinking once they start to get a small Fleet, this could be a milestone Adventure that could net them enough cash to buy a surplus Azhanti High Lightening Frontier Cruiser to round out their fleet and be a force deserving respect as a polity in the Reach. Maybe last adventure before the finale. (Actually second to last as taking ownership of a surplus Azhanti High Lightening Frontier Cruiser would be its own adventure)

That said, I don't like to contradict too much the campaign as written and thus create plot holes I have to plug. I am still in the process of reading it all.

Thoughts?

 

[AndrewW]

Thus, as in real life, the contents of a vault should exceed the value of the Vault itself else you are spending more money on a container than on what it contains.

But consider reusability if that vault is used over and over again you don't need to consider the contents of one trip to needing to be over the value of the vault.

 

[Garran]

Some of the value is non-monetary: treaties and the like that don't really have cash value but might be diplomatically important (or useful as leverage, per GeDeCo's designs), and that you want to keep secure even if it's expensive.

Focusing on those might be a better option than just adding more wealth: the PCs now have a bunch of these sensitive documents - there surely isn't any way to exploit that.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Do you think it might cause any plot problems to simply postpone this adventure toward later in the campaign when it would be more appropriate to offer higher rewards?

I was just about to suggest that

 

[MasterGwydion]

I was just about to suggest that

I actually usually skip the Treasure Ship adventure in My PoD campaigns. Nothing against the adventure itself, but it never seems to fit in with what My players are actually doing, so I usually skip it,.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

But consider reusability if that vault is used over and over again you don't need to consider the contents of one trip to needing to be over the value of the vault.

You are not wrong and I have considered those economics. I mean, the cost of my delivery pizza in no way matches the cost of the car that brought it to my door, true, but in this case I am thinking a more appropriate comparison goes all the way back to Spanish Galleons of the 16th and 17th centuries. Afterall, this is the metaphor or analog for the entire Pirates of Drinax campaign, right?
Back then, the Spanish ships were worth a few thousand ducats on their own. Laden with gold from the new world they easily were worth into the millions of ducats.
A 70Mcr pay off from a "Treasure Ship" is too low, even if that is meant to preserve game balance.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

I actually usually skip the Treasure Ship adventure in My PoD campaigns. Nothing against the adventure itself, but it never seems to fit in with what My players are actually doing, so I usually skip it,.

Impressive! "PoD campaigns" as in plural. I will be lucky I think if I ever get to play the whole campaign just once in my lifetime. I am sorta making it a goal to have on offer all 10 adventures from PoD, the 3 from Shadows of Sindal and the other 6 PoD published adventures. I want to read through them all to see if I can make them all work together and still keep it sandbox. Thinking more as a player, the Treasure Ship caught my eye first, but as mentioned, very underwhelmed by the payout.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

Some of the value is non-monetary: treaties and the like that don't really have cash value but might be diplomatically important (or useful as leverage, per GeDeCo's designs), and that you want to keep secure even if it's expensive.

Focusing on those might be a better option than just adding more wealth: the PCs now have a bunch of these sensitive documents - there surely isn't any way to exploit that.

Normally, I would agree but.... "TREASURE SHIP!!!" LOL.
That phrase alone being used should make this the biggest pot of disposable booty ever offered in a Traveller campaign ever... EVER.
No, not "valuable info" no plot-leads to a side quest. No. Just cold hard golden pieces-of-eight enough to dive into like Scrooge McDuck.

If you were to ever offer such a thing, it should be in a pirate based adventure and it should involve something called a "Treasure Ship".
Like most Traveller players, I don't really expect to find a bunch of loot. I expect a catch. There is another adventure where the "treasure" turns out to be toxic weapons of mass destruction and nearly unusable. ie, a catch.

I want my players eyes wide open at the table with money signs in them and their jaws on the table when they open that vault, because if I don't deliver, I will get "Typical... stingy referee too afraid to give us the goods because 'game balance'. So what the heck can we do with these "documents" again? Side quest? Targets on our backs?"

That said, how to spend that much money and not have it lead back will its own catch regardless, but that sweet moment where they are getting the biggest payoff ever, priceless. (btw, I have to be stingy as hell in the run up to this adventure though. They will be marking off every bullet or ration they use and feeling it.)

 

[Nelphine]

i think you actually make it gold pieces. (plated, but still)
Call each piece worth 50 credits. We want 50 tons of them in the vault. Thats 1,500,000-1,800,000 coins. Thats worth 75-90 million credits.

Then, its in a pirate campaign, and we have 10 tons of other things.. so lets make them weapons. Call it 1000 ACRs, with ammo, plus 200 small arms, with ammo. Call it another 2 million credits of weaponry.

That's still right in that 80 MCr range, and absolutely has that jaw dropping moment - MILLIONS of gold coins?!

So, despite it not being what you want, it seems reasonable?

 

[J. L. Brown]

A 70 MCr payoff is peanuts; why would the pirates risk a 343 MCr Harrier just to eke out a 70 MCr payoff? Why bother stealing (or guarding) the stupid treasure, when the ship it is on is worth 585 MCr? Each of the Gazelle escorts is worth 188 MCr. Regular freight costs for doing seven J-2s is 11200 Cr per dTon; for a ship moving 489 dTons of freight, this is an opportunity cost of ~5.5 MCr (each way). The Imperium is expending about 11 MCr (NOT counting crew salaries & other monthly expenses for all three ships) on this shipment, and it hardly seems worth it.

Heck, just the basic Battle Dress & FGMP for each of the eight Imperial Marines is 840 kCR each; and you know the 18 expansion slots of the Battle Dress is going to be filled with all sorts of no-expenses-spared whoop-ass.

If the concern is 'too much money', then keep in mind that 70 MCr is not enough to buy a single subbie (78 MCr) -- and the players are trying to rebuild an entire kingdom. Money must be spent freely, and a GM can easily drain the coffers through encouraging the development & use of assets & factions; or for starport upgrades; or for base-building, or any number of personal projects Oleb (or, more likely, Rao) foists off on the group.

70 MCr is peanuts; far less risky (and time consuming) to steal a few crummy (@ 40 MCr each) little 100 dTon scout ships. Less danger, less time, and no chance of honking off both of the major powers which could crush the players. If the GM wants to use the Treasure Ship scenario in order to introduce the GeDeCo skulduggery and get the players involved in the political machinations, then a bigger lure is absolutely appropriate.

I struggle to think what sort of 'Treasure' that could be placed on such a ship would even be worthwhile. Radioactives only come out to 489 MCr, which is less than the cost of the ship, so it is kind of a waste -- who builds a billion-dollar vault to safekeep paper plates?

 

[Condottiere]

I'm thinking ... sunk cost.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Treaties and diplomatic papers might be worth a considerable sum -- IF they are useful at all. Bank drafts could be valuable, but heavily encrypted. High-end, customized robotics -- especially if they are for construction, or terraforming, or decontamination functions that are valuable to Drinax and planets it is interested in. And there are also correspondences with Heirate entities -- like 'Please make your payment to xxxx in the form of large blocks of non-sequential, small, worn bills at the following dead-drop'. Armaments seem unlikely; the Aslan make their own, and the Imperium certainly does not want to make the Aslan more formidable. Blueprints for things probably cost about 1/1000th of the items basic cost, but might include all sorts of Fab Chamber templates -- but all that stuff would be limited to TL 12 or 13. Authentication keys to (non-military) ships that are being exchanged... and that leads to stories.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

i think you actually make it gold pieces. (plated, but still)
Call each piece worth 50 credits. We want 50 tons of them in the vault. Thats 1,500,000-1,800,000 coins. Thats worth 75-90 million credits.

Then, its in a pirate campaign, and we have 10 tons of other things.. so lets make them weapons. Call it 1000 ACRs, with ammo, plus 200 small arms, with ammo. Call it another 2 million credits of weaponry.

That's still right in that 80 MCr range, and absolutely has that jaw dropping moment - MILLIONS of gold coins?!

So, despite it not being what you want, it seems reasonable?

It's because it's not what I want that it is not reasonable. lol Anything less than what I could buy a capitol ship cruiser is unreasonable for just the very name of this adventure. How you describe the contents has no real bearing. Gold might be worth different in the world of Traveller. So as far as I am concern, the actual contents are "MacGuffinonium" and unless it is worth about 35,000Mcr, it is not jaw dropping. Again, this is something for just before the finale in my thinking.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

A 70 MCr payoff is peanuts;

You put it perfectly. Everything you wrote here makes my point. I am thinking I want to give them a surplus Azhanti High Lightening Cruiser out of this heist. That's about Mcr35,000 full retail. 60 tons of Rhodium at todays value in USD would equal more than that many credits if 1 credit = 1 dollar. One can make up substances that for whatever reason are worth that much. Example; "MacGuffin Spice".. so rare and exquisite, an ounce is worth 50,000Mcr...

 

[J. L. Brown]

I am a little curious why the Third Imperium and the Aslan Heirate are doing trades with such tiny ships. The Imperial Navy fields squadrons of Tigress Dreadnoughts -- each with a price of 356.884 GCr. Certainly a valuable and important trade route joining the two empires would merit more than a dinky 1600 dTon 'Treasure Ship' worth less than 0.25% of a single naval ship. And it delivers less than 500 dTons of cargo.

Shameless plug: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vFQCYeGIe1H-_ncWyF6cAZ0bJKG6ZHkHap0N29NrBDU/edit?usp=sharing

Using Arkathan's excellent ship designer spreadsheet, I have laid out a medium-sized (20000 dTon) J-2F trade ship; it delivers 12000 dTons of standard-containerized cargo, and another 1437 dTons of break-bulk 'Tetris' cargo (and 100 Middle passengers). Cost per dTon for this route (assuming the ship flies with full cargo, something the big cargo lines can manage with their dedicated brokers) is less than 4 kCr per dTon. Of course, the ship costs a little over 3 GCr... but that is not enough to warrant deploying even a Valiant Light Cruiser; maybe a Chrysanthemum or two along the route are appropriate.

 

[Vormaerin]

It's probably symbolic. It is unlikely that the Imperium and the Aslan trade directly (as governments) to any meaningful degree. The distance and expense is rather considerable, even without the risks of travelling in backwaters. Its 12 Jump 2s from Tobia to Tlaiowaha. That's 4 months or so each way. The vast majority of actual trade is going to be on corporate vessels and probably most of it will be through middle men.

It is probably carrying gifts, physical messages, and the like. Not "here, buy this stuff".

 

[Nelphine]

so if we replace the ship with the 20k dton freighter, and increase tonnage of the vault from 60 dtons to 12000 dtons (both reasonable imo) then..

even if we just keep what I had suggested (just change the amounts to fit the new vault), that increases the value of the treasure from 80 MCr to 16,000 MCr, although we now have 200,000 ACRs in it, which seems excessive. So, we replace the weapon portion, with full equipment for an army of 10,000 (not including battle dress), and we have a very large number of gold coins (350 million ish)

If you're really set on that 35,000 MCr, then.. double it to a 40k dton Treasure Ship.