Drinax Campaign Treasure Ship (Spoilers)

[J. L. Brown]

It's probably symbolic. It is unlikely that the Imperium and the Aslan trade directly (as governments) to any meaningful degree. The distance and expense is rather considerable, even without the risks of travelling in backwaters. Its 12 Jump 2s from Tobia to Tlaiowaha. That's 4 months or so each way. The vast majority of actual trade is going to be on corporate vessels and probably most of it will be through middle men.

It is probably carrying gifts, physical messages, and the like. Not "here, buy this stuff".

The Imperium is taking a serious risk that the Aslan will figure out the symbolism of an extended middle finger. Respect means 'I take you seriously', and a 1600 dTon ship worth less than 0.002% of a warship does not indicate that the Imperium considers the Hierate important.

The Imperium - Heirate J-2 route is:
Fist -2- Wildeman -2- Cordan -2- Argona -2- Sperle -2- TechWorld -2- Paal -2- Tyokh;
the J-3 route is apparently:
Fist -2- Wildeman -3- Acrid -3- TechWorld -2- Paal -2- Tyokh


Yenaldlooshi:

The Aslan import high-technology goods, spices, and live animals; they primarily export petrochemicals, textiles, precious metals, crystals and gems, and uncommon ore and raw materials.

Advanced Vehicles are 180 kCr/dTon;
Advanced Weapons are 150 kCr/dTon;
Advanced Electronics and Advanced Manufactured Goods are 100 kCr/dTon;
Advanced Machine Parts are 75 kCr/dTon;
Luxury Consumables are 20 kCr/dTon;
Live Animals are 10 kCr/dTon; and
Spices (including Dustspice) are 6 kCr/dTon;

Precious Metals are 50 kCr/dTon;
Crystals and Gems are 20 kCr/dTon;
Uncommon Raw Materials are 20 kCr/dTon;
Petrochemicals are 10 kCr/dTon;
Uncommon Ores are 8 kCr/dTon; and
Textiles are 3 kCr/dTon;

Honestly, the Textiles are worthless. I'd call them 'Luxuries' instead. I would probably increase the value of DustSpice, too -- MgT 1e Compedium #2, page 66 prices it at from 500 Cr to 11 kCr per kilogram, but has weirdly low kilograms per dTon. If you instead figure that DustSpice is similar in density to Cinnamon, then a 13.5 m^3 dTon is worth right at 3 MCr (for 500 Cr/kg) up to 66.2 MCr (for the highest grade 11 kCr/kg spice). Or, you could declare that some of those 'Crystals' are Zuchai crystals, worth about 1000 Cr/kg. If those are approximately the same density as quartz, then you are looking at 35.1 tonnes (and 35.1 MCr) per dTon. Maybe cut that in half for packaging to prevent damage.

Canonically, it looks like the ship will be returning to the Imperium with a cargo worth 50 kCr/dTon or less -- so I figure that (absent any serious trade imbalance, or any GM fiat with Zuchai crystals) would be the average value of the cargo going to the Hierate as well. Still, 45 kCr/dTon x 13000 dTons is 585 MCr. That is still kind of crap, but it is limited by what the published material claims the Aslan export.

If you are interested in increased security for the goods, you could convert some of the 'Tetris' cargo space to a vault -- 1400 dTons of vault is 700 dTons of secure cargo.

 

[wintertraveller]

The Aslan pirate's armoured frigate with twin particle beam bays seems like the big prize in this adventure.

 

[Sigtrygg]

One of the reasons the heist is worth so little - if it were 70 billion credits the Imperium would want it back.

Which means a destroyer flotilla of twenty 5000t destroyers plus a couple of cruisers stomping everything in the PoD campaign flat.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[MasterGwydion]

One of the reasons the heist is worth so little - if it were 70 billion credits the Imperium would want it back.

Which means a destroyer flotilla of twenty 5000t destroyers plus a couple of cruisers stomping everything in the PoD campaign flat.

Even a TRILLION Credits is nothing to the Imperium. It is chump change. Pax Imperii, the 3I version of Air Force One is 5GCr. It travels with 3 Sylean-class Battleships (70GCr each), an Antiama-class Fleet Carrier (66GCr), a flight of Sloan-class Escort ships (6x3 = 18GCr), and "several" J-6 couriers of unknown value. That is just his personal travelling around group and it is worth over 300CGr in ships alone, not to mention the thousands of troops and their equipment that travel with the ships. It would likely annoy the Duke of Tobia more than anyone else, but his fleet is already stretched pretty thin.

 

[Vormaerin]

The Imperium is taking a serious risk that the Aslan will figure out the symbolism of an extended middle finger. Respect means 'I take you seriously', and a 1600 dTon ship worth less than 0.002% of a warship does not indicate that the Imperium considers the Hierate important.

The Imperium - Heirate J-2 route is:
Fist -2- Wildeman -2- Cordan -2- Argona -2- Sperle -2- TechWorld -2- Paal -2- Tyokh;
the J-3 route is apparently:
Fist -2- Wildeman -3- Acrid -3- TechWorld -2- Paal -2- Tyokh

If you say so. That seems like a bizarre way for an Aslan clan leader to react to millions of credits in gifts.

But, yes, the Imperium could definitely send a force that the PCs have no hope of dealing with if you think that makes the Aslan feel better.

 

[MasterGwydion]

If you say so. That seems like a bizarre way for an Aslan clan leader to react to millions of credits in gifts.

But, yes, the Imperium could definitely send a force that the PCs have no hope of dealing with if you think that makes the Aslan feel better.

A Clan leader is often in control of an entire planet or groups of planets. There are smaller clan leaders, but they are not going to be the ones dealing with the 3I directly. A Clan leader of a Major Clan will have a personal wealth of hundreds of times the wealth of Elon Musk or the ruling family of Abu Dhabi, so hundreds of trillions of credits. Millions of credits is not even worthy of "tribute". Abu Dhabi loses or gains 100 million dollars when someone sneezes. It's nothing. Pretty much any Aslan 'ko is wealthier than any human on current earth, even the poor ones. Their wives know this even if the 'ko himself does not.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

What is actually in the vault is immaterial and just "flavor" for the adventure. There is far more in trade items than is even dreamt of in your trading goods D66 tables, good Horatio. GM fiat is fine for what the thing actually is. It only needs to match the price per ton to justify the vault.
The most important aspect of whatever is in that vault is about what it is worth in terms of megacredits as this is the most important factor in terms of game mechanics

If there is no item listed that can fit this in the Core book, then a seconds worth of imagination can create something.
Whether it is something from the Aslan to the Imperium or vice versa is just a matter of what direction the vessel was facing.

Further, again using the Spanish Galleon example (as it doesn't get more real than real history), the cargo going to the Aslan (new world) could be just something Aslan value that the Imperium does not so much. Like you said, rare spices and meats. The Spanish sent metal tools and horses as trade goods to the new world or they sent their treasure ships empty. They only cared about the gold coming back. The cargo the Imperium brings back maybe the real reason for the security which could be the gems you mentioned.

And why did the Spanish value gold so much? Were they using it for practical reasons like computer parts? Nope. It was valuable because they liked it and attached value to it. IE it was valuable because it was valuable. It was the bitcoin of its day. Same can happen with any commodity that only the Aslan have and maybe don't care so much about. Afterall, counting credits per ounce sounds like female work anyway. I just want me some of that raw Vilani veal steak. They can keep the glassy looking baubles that my females and slaves dig out of the ground of my TER if they send me that.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

One of the reasons the heist is worth so little - if it were 70 billion credits the Imperium would want it back.

Which means a destroyer flotilla of twenty 5000t destroyers plus a couple of cruisers stomping everything in the PoD campaign flat.

Yeah, the Spanish had an Armada too and they could not stop predation of their treasure ships.

I am not saying the Imperium might try exactly what you describe, but whatever noble or admiral signs off on that plan should probably crack out a history data cube and start on the section called "Asymmetric Warfare".

The best thing they might be able to do is park such a fleet in orbit over Drinax or Theev, send an envoy and ask nicely if they would stop all that piracy stuff thus removing those systems off the board as havens... for a bit at least.

 

[Sigtrygg]

There is a considerable difference in scale between Imperial warships and the patrol boats of the PoD campaign, so nothing like the Spanish really. Now if the Spanish had ironclads to annihilate the sail ships being used by the pirates then you have a similar situation.

 

[Vormaerin]

Right. First off, the idea that this treasure ship represents the Imperium trading with the Heirate is silly. The Emperor and the Tlauku have direct representatives dealing with each other. If the Imperium was sending something to the *Heirate* it would be sent from the Core to Kusyu.

This treasure ship is clearly something between the Duke of Tobia and the local Aslan clanlords of the Ahaoriy and whatever other clans are in the immediate area.

Secondly, these are Aslan clan lords. Aka males. They don't value "money". So the trade goods are going to be things Aslan do value as signs of respect: weapons, spices, rare foodstuffs, art objects, etc. No one is going to be whispering "This is only worth MCr25, my lord". And sending a gigantic heavily armed ship, even assuming the Duke of Tobia has one to spare (depends on how common you think those are) is as likely to look like either weakness (to skeered of pirates to go in a normal ship), disrespect (don't trust the Aslan to safeguard the ship), or an attempt at intimidation (again, depending on the exact situation in your setting with regards to capital ships in the region).

As for how much money it needs to be to be worth it to a group of players, that's going to depend a lot on the specifics of the campaign. And how much value there is in keeping the Duke of Tobia and the local Aslan clans at a distance from each other diplomatically. And what kind of prestige is associated with snatching the Imperial Treasure ship.

 

[J. L. Brown]

The Duke of Tobia runs Tobia sub-sector -- 29 Imperial systems. These are heavily linked together (and to the rest of the empire) with trade routes; 5 of the worlds with class A starports (all except the Amber-zoned Scaladon) in the sub-sector are on the trade route; and the other eight are all Class B. Prosperous Albe (class A starport) has no other trading partners; and between Tobia, Hradus, and Albe the trade route accounts for more than 42 billion sophonts.

The Hierate Trade Route ends at Tyokh, population 20 billion. It is not described exactly who is on the Aslan end, but both the Tlaiowaha and their vassals the Ahroay'if (both described as 'wealthy' 'trade' clans) are very likely candidates. Going to visit the Ahroay'ifko involves a journey 16 parsecs beyond Trokh to his private planet of Syohyus; and the wealth of the clan is staggering. It was the Ahroay'if who, centuries ago (before they became wealthy) sent a fleet of warships to shatter the Kingdom of Drinax & virus-bombed Drinax itself into oblivion.

The Ahroay'ifko (who might, in game, make a gift of 100 MCr or 400 MCr Ekawsiykua-class ship to the characters) might not have a keen eye for a bargain, but he is advised (and pays attention to) those who do. They would certainly alert him to any insults to his honor.

 

[Vormaerin]

Sure, you can decide that's how things work in your campaign. If you want to run a campaign where a MCr25 million gift is insulting, go ahead. I'm going to respectfully disagree.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Sure, you can decide that's how things work in your campaign. If you want to run a campaign where a MCr25 million gift is insulting, go ahead. I'm going to respectfully disagree.

To a Nation-State on Earth now, 25 million dollars is an insulting gift. The US sends Honduras roughly $65 million per year. It gives Israel $3.8 BILLION a year. These examples are using puny little countries on a Balkanized TL-8 world. Do you really think that a "gift" would be less between two "Sector-sized" groups? Because, let's be honest, it is for bribery, legal bribery. Are you telling Me, that you think, that the Duke of Tobia's trade relationship with this one Aslan Clan is worth less than what the US's relationship with Honduras is worth? That just doesn't seem reasonable to Me.

 

[Condottiere]

Nailing down the essentials.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Sure, you can decide that's how things work in your campaign. If you want to run a campaign where a MCr25 million gift is insulting, go ahead. I'm going to respectfully disagree.

"Oh great and mighty potentate! Esteemed ally and powerful suzerain of a vast clan! Greetings from my master, the Duke of Tobia, who sends you this token of his respect for you and your fearsome desmene!" (*Gift is worth much less than the box it came in*)

"Ahem -- we want the box back."

This just does not seem like it will play out well. I can see reactions all the way from "Is this a racist 'I fits, I sits' joke about Aslan and boxes?" to "Is the Duke really so poor and weak?" to "If the Duke only repects us this much, we obviously have not made our full strength adequately known. We invade now."

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Vormaerin]

It could be that way. It could also be that a larger amount results in one of these:

"Why the heck is that dude giving us all this money? Does he think we are a client state that needs his largesse?" Or

"Hmm, this human is paying tribute, huh? Nice. Let everyone know the Duke of Tobia is our vassal."

What's culturally acceptable as a gift is just that, a cultural standard. If you want that standard to be billions of credits, go for it. But there's no intrinsic requirement that it be so. ESPECIALLY dealing with an alien culture with values that do not, generally, focus on the price of things.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It could be that way. It could also be that a larger amount results in one of these:

"Why the heck is that dude giving us all this money? Does he think we are a client state that needs his largesse?" Or

"Hmm, this human is paying tribute, huh? Nice. Let everyone know the Duke of Tobia is our vassal."

What's culturally acceptable as a gift is just that, a cultural standard. If you want that standard to be billions of credits, go for it. But there's no intrinsic requirement that it be so. ESPECIALLY dealing with an alien culture with values that do not, generally, focus on the price of things.

Aslan culture does focus on the price of things. Women care about the price of things in Aslan society. They advise their Clan Lords/husbands in matters of finance. Aslan females make up something like 70% of the population. So, you just discounted the written material for 70% of their race. Where do you get your information that Aslan don't care about the price of things?

Do you want Me to start quoting book and page numbers for where My information comes from? I can start compiling that list if you wish.

 

[J. L. Brown]

My favorite reaction is that the Ahroay'ifko spends about 0.0001% of his wealth (in excess of 500 GCr) to build a 'vault to safeguard this gift'. The Vault covers most of fair-sized continent; employs half a million or so elite ceremonial guards in ornate & top of the line Battle Dress; and is built mostly of Iridium, Platinum, and Gold. The inner-sanctum of inner sanctums is the actual 'vault' proper -- it is 320000 dTons of 'Vault' which the Ahroay'ifko paid 5000x the cost for (800 MCr) in order to have ultra-high quality craftsmanship & truly expensive and exclusive materials. Inside the 16000 dton volume interior (ten times larger than the 'Treasure ship') of the vault, is the entire 300 dtons of 80 MCr 'treasure' -- dwarfed, puny, and utterly worthless in comparison to the vault all around it which is an expression of the might & majesty of this minor clan-head.

The Ahroay'ifko then invites the Duke to come and take his leisure for a few weeks, as an honored guest of the Ahroay'ifko. This involves a hunt (it is up to the GM if the game allocated to the Duke -- a small rabbit -- is drugged & staked down in the open, or if many of the game animals are cosmetically altered to bear a resemblance to the Duke & family), a tour of the vault, and a grand feast where the highlight is the Ahroay'ifko presenting the Duke with 'a token of his esteem' -- an engraved pen, presented (in all seriousness) with great pomp and gravitas. Fanfares of trumpets; a large honor-guard; servants strewing the path with petals of rare, expensive, and fragrant flowers; dancers and acrobats; a vast silk and velvet cushion, upon which the gift rests, bourne by a company of beautiful human retainers to the Ahroay'ifko. The Ahroay'ifko allows the Duke to keep the box (presented separately) the pen comes in.