Cults of Glorantha Errata REALLY NEEDED

[Deleriad]

But I still have to see why CoG 2 is useless/unplayable/etc.

The fundamental problems are with spirit magic and shamanism because the system is incomplete and self-contradictory. The issues have been documented many times in other threads but basically I have never yet been able to figure out how spirit magic works. For example, is the "spell imprinting" method of learning spirit magic separate from having a charm or do you need to both imprint a spell and have a charm in order to cast a spirit magic spell?

There are also, as I recall, things such as spirit cults having access to spells that they can't cast because they can't make charms for them. For example, I think Bagog has spells such as heal and mobility that they have no way to cast.

Then there are things that you just have to guess at. For example Summon (otherworld creature) says runes: all. Presumably this means that any rune lets you cast summon.

The spirit magic spell "Create Rune Charm" has the trait "enchant" yet the trait "enchant" doesn't exist and the rules say that every spirit spell is cast using summoning skill. The description says that a charm spirit is summoned but I can't find game stats for a charm spirit anywhere.

Create Practice Fetish has the trait "enchantment" but doesn't actually appear to be an enchantment and you know what: it doesn't tell you how to create a fetish. Does it use the enchantment rules from the companion or another system? How much POW (if any) does it cost to create a Practice Fetish?

Costs of casting spirit magic: 1 MP per magnitude except on page 10 it says there is "no magic point cost ... to use a charm." Is this really true? Presumably not.

It just goes on and on. It's very, very obvious that the MRQ rules for enchanting and summoning hadn't been finalised when the authors handed in coG 2 and no one bothered to knit the book together with the rest of the system.

There is a difference between making adjustments to a system to suit your tastes and finding that a system is actually unusable; spirit magic is the latter. I don't blame the authors of the book because if you try a little forensic reading you can see loads of good ideas in there. I blame the Mongoose editing system which, frankly, is dire.

 

[atgxtg]

The odd thing is that the really glaring problems would have shown in the playtests, or in Mongoose house campaigns by now. I get the impression that there aren't any mongooses in Glorantha.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Nothing of these require more than houseruling, and I have spotted a couple other mistakes myself. Rewriting the book is not necessary, re-editing it maybe. But even the Deluxe edition has points which the majority of readers here consider in need of heavy amendment.

If something must be petitioned to be fixed, more basic subjects should be selected. For instance, why on Ear.. er, on Glorantha should a spiritist use only one skill to cast rune/spirit spells and a theist use a dozen or more Runecasting skills?

 

[Rurik]

The odd thing is that the really glaring problems would have shown in the playtests, or in Mongoose house campaigns by now. I get the impression that there aren't any mongooses in Glorantha.

I've been playing in Glorantha for years and I've never run into a Mongoose. Are there stats anywhere? If so I'd say they exist but are rare. Otherwise I'd say you are correct - there are no mongooses in Glorantha.

Have you asked over at World of Glorantha?

(no I'm not being serious)

 

[Loz]

The odd thing is that the really glaring problems would have shown in the playtests, or in Mongoose house campaigns by now. I get the impression that there aren't any mongooses in Glorantha.

I've been playing in Glorantha for years and I've never run into a Mongoose. Are there stats anywhere? If so I'd say they exist but are rare. Otherwise I'd say you are correct - there are no mongooses in Glorantha.

Have you asked over at World of Glorantha?

(no I'm not being serious)

I'm a mongoose and I'm in Glorantha....

 

[B_Steele]

Not only am I a mongoose in Glorantha, but I also made sure to add Gloranthan Mongoose to the manuscript of Monsters II.

No...I'm not joking.

-Bry

 

[Rurik]

I'm a mongoose and I'm in Glorantha....

Hmm. So there must be stats. At least for Runequest. I suppose in HeroQuest you could get away with just Mongoose 17W2.

If it has stats, it can be killed... :twisted:

(Like my previous post, this one is in no way intended to be taken seriously. Using this post in any way other than intendended is a crime punishable by small furry rodents)

 

[Rurik]

Not only am I a mongoose in Glorantha, but I also made sure to add Gloranthan Mongoose to the manuscript of Monsters II.

No...I'm not joking.

-Bry

Well there you have it. It has stats so it must exist. Or it will when Monsters II comes out.

 

[The King]

I've been playing in Glorantha for years and I've never run into a Mongoose. Are there stats anywhere? If so I'd say they exist but are rare. Otherwise I'd say you are correct - there are no mongooses in Glorantha.

Aren't these called rubble runners? :twisted:

 

[The King]

If it has stats, it can be killed... :twisted:

Why do you quote Conan?

 

[Rurik]

Actually, I hope Rubble Runners are in Monsters II as well as Mongooses, by Crom.

 

[atgxtg]

Not only am I a mongoose in Glorantha,

Great. How have you addressed the problems that people have raised here in your campaign?

but I also made sure to add Gloranthan Mongoose to the manuscript of Monsters II.

No...I'm not joking.

-Bry

I wonder who got Matt Sprange for his allied spirit?

"Oh no! A Dream Dragon, I need that nerf'd in a rules update ASAP!"

Yes...I am joking. :lol:

 

[Voriof]

atgxtg, in case you did not notice, this thread is about throwing a whole book written by Robin Laws out of the window.

Actually, aside from providing me with some much-needed advice and a dozen or so highly nifty cult writeups that were cut from the core rules (I think) which were slated for inclusion in the book, Robin had very little to do with Cults of Glorantha. So, his hands are clean.

Jeff

 

[Sinisalo]

Jeff

You're a brave man turning up here, Jeff

Seriously though, there's a hell of a lot of whinging going on here about what amounts to two of the three actually-quality books for MRQ. I read Cults 2 and understood it straight away. I haven't looked into the whys-and-wherefores of becoming a shaman but a few typos and contradictions don't really reduce my enjoyment of the books.

And in colour, with decent illustrations, written by someone who knows what they're talking about and Gloranthan - Hallelujah! (by the way the spell checker on this site doesn't know how to spell colour but does know how to spell hallelujah which is a greater crime against humanity than this thread)

Well done Jeff, hats off to you

 

[RosenMcStern]

And just to add one more praise, the part about Malkioni orders, though it has some cloudy parts, too, is really, really interesting. Certainly much more in line with the HQ description of the Malkioni, even more than Sandy's sorcery, and it still is RQ, not camouflaged HQ.

 

[Rurik]

I don't think anyone has ever blamed Jeff for the problems with the Cults books. And his continued participation on the subject long after his work at Mongoose is done is appreciated by me, and I suspect others. It shows that he takes pride his work, and cares about the people who have paid (a lot of) money for the books.

That being said, there is a reason this thread keeps coming up over and over again.

As Gloranthan source they are great, rules wise they have problems. Some are flavor wise (Humakti gaining access to Resurrection :shock: ), other rules wise (Shamanism, as anyone who has tried to apply the rules can tell you, is a mess, sure you can use spirit magic, I have, but a lot of GM calls have to be made). Mongoose has admitted there are problems.

However, to Mongooses credit, they have responded to constructive criticicism (or incessant whining if you must ) in the past. Some times you just have to keep on them - which I think was Blackyinkin's point for starting this thread.

 

[Rurik]

And just to add one more praise, the part about Malkioni orders, though it has some cloudy parts, too, is really, really interesting. Certainly much more in line with the HQ description of the Malkioni, even more than Sandy's sorcery, and it still is RQ, not camouflaged HQ.

I second that. I am really digging the Malkioni right now. I love the stuff in Cults 2 (and the other supplements). One of the biggest appeals to me for MRQ is exploring the new (err, I guess technically 'old') empires.

 

[zozotroll]

My only big complaint about CoG2 is the Crsh spell. It used to be veery cool. Now it is no more powerful than bludgeon, it is not reusable, and you have to go back to the temple and pay and pray to get it back. Bludgeon is much superior, and I just dont get why that happened.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Crush is in CoG 1

The idea is that any Initiate can get a Crush Mag 1 for just $50, whereas you need a Metal rune to gain Bludgeon.

 

[Voriof]

Crush is in CoG 1

The idea is that any Initiate can get a Crush Mag 1 for just $50, whereas you need a Metal rune to gain Bludgeon.

...and a point of POW that he can use once before going back to the temple. Which is, frankly, a pretty steep price for the benefit. I'm half-convinced there should be a way to expand that POW pool for priests and the like through expenditure of HP.

On the other hand, I am glad that the Malkioni stuff went over well - I had an advance copy of Greg's "Middle Sea Empire" to work with. A most excellent book for those interested in the background.

Jeff

edit: P.S. Loz seems to know Glorantha at least as well as I do. With Roderick on overwatch (and he knows more about the place than either of us combined), things should be okay on the Glorantha content side...