Cults of Glorantha Errata REALLY NEEDED

[Blackyinkin]

Hi Mongoose,

This errata is really needed, I have attempted to sort this myself, but it is so extensive that it became a pointless exercise. Magic is the core of Glorantha, so to have so many flaws in one source is more than irritating. Prolonged silence on this subject is helping no-one. There are still errors based on this text appearing in other projects (see The Voralans article in S&P which makes a reference to Common Divine Spells, a subject yet to be correctly defined.)

Come on chaps get it sorted, get an errata printed or a new revised version printed soon!

Hugs and Kisses
Simon Bray

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Come on chaps get it sorted, get an errata printed or a new revised version printed soon!

seconded.
A revised and corrected edition in a single volume. Preferably laid out more clearly and attractively, and by someone who appreciates the need for a sufficent margin on the side of the page where the binding will be. And some sort of recompense for those of us unfortunate enough to have bought the first edition. If this had been the first Gloranthan book Mongoose had produced, I'm not sure I'd have bothered waiting for the second...

 

[The King]

Unfortunately, publishing errata doesn't seem to be Mongoose policy.

 

[Blackyinkin]

Hi All,

Has anyone else done any error trapping on the document? If so I would be interested in seeing their results and adding them to my own. At least then I could forward the errata we have done to Mongoose to help those busy folks out a little. If so PM me and we will chat.

Simon

 

[RosenMcStern]

Well, in fact they prefer to call them "Updates". Just like Microsoft does not make "patches" to fix bugs, but "Service packs to enhance customer experience".

In any case, add a +1 to Simon's petition. Cult of Glorantha needs some minor OFFICIAL fixes, not a thorough rewriting, but it needs them NOW. I am currently playing in the Second Age, and I am happy with it, but only because I am playing a God Learner. Playing an Orlanthi with some oddities like Chaos rune integration would be a big no-no for any seasoned fan, and a very bad introduction to Glorantha for newbies (and we have many of them here, thanks God!).

 

[The King]

I don't have the books yet (though I have Magic of Glorantha).
I think the best you can do is to have either a fan-made errata as a sticky or on someonelse's site.

It is also possible and desired that Mongoose release a cults of Glorantha (book 1+2+3) in one volume.

In fact I believe these is more chance to see such a volume than to have them published the errata.

 

[soltakss]

An errata would be difficult to do on a fan basis because there is a difference between what we think feels wrong and what is actually wrong.

For instance, there is no Sever Spirit in Cults of Glorantha (it appears elsewhere as a 5 point spell that allows two or three saving throws against it, making it next to useless, but that's irrelevant) - does this mean that Sever Spirit should go into the Errata or was it missed off for a reason?

Do we compare with the RQ2/3 spells and see what has been missed or do we start from scratch and treat RQM as a new entity?

If we start from scratch, then what are we looking for? Orlanthi having to integrate the Chaos Rune to cast Skybolt is rubbish from a pan-Gloranthan point of view, but is completely reasonable from a rules point of view.

Some things are clearly errors:
1. Spells that are mentioned but not described.
2. Spells that are given as associate cult spells but are not in the main cult
3. Spells that are confusing, misleading or ambiguous

Some things that should be errors from a Gloranthan Point of View:
1. Spells that are banned for a particular cult (E.g. Fire Spells for Yelmalio)
2. Spells for runes that are banned for a cult (E.g. Skybolt/Chaos for Orlanth)

Some things that we would like to see from a Gloranthan Point of View:
1. Spells that were included in RQ2/3 and not in RQM (E.g. Sever Spirit for Humakt)
2. Spells that do not fit the cult (Resurrect for Death Cults, including Humakt)


I would go as far as to say that the entire of Cults of Glorantha 2, with its use of Spirit (Rune) Magic as cult magic instead of Divine Magic, should be classed as Errata and the spells rewritten as Divine Spells.



Simon - how many errors have you found so far? Can you send it to soltakss@yahoo.com so I can have a laugh/compare it to the list I gave up on?

 

[RosenMcStern]

I agree with anything that Simon (P.) said, except:

I would go as far as to say that the entire of Cults of Glorantha 2, with its use of Spirit (Rune) Magic as cult magic instead of Divine Magic, should be classed as Errata and the spells rewritten as Divine Spells.

Why? Hykim, Waha and Kyger Litor have always been regarded as spirit-based cults rather than Theist cults, to a lesser extent in RQ3 and to a greater length in HQ. I think in this case the authors did it right and gave an interpretation that is more colourful than RQ3. CoG 2 is good as is, at least 99% of it.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

If we start from scratch, then what are we looking for? Orlanthi having to integrate the Chaos Rune to cast Skybolt is rubbish from a pan-Gloranthan point of view, but is completely reasonable from a rules point of view.

Since this is a Gloranthan book, if it is rubbish from a pan-Gloranthan point of view then it shouldn't be here, regardless of it's appicability elsewhere. Having been told that Glorantha would be the "default" world for MRQ, it is bad enough when rules that offend Gloranthan sensibilities are given without specifically excluding them. We certainly shouldn't expect to find any generic/non-gloranthan rules in books specifically labelled as Gloranthan

 

[Deleriad]

I agree with anything that Simon (P.) said, except:

I would go as far as to say that the entire of Cults of Glorantha 2, with its use of Spirit (Rune) Magic as cult magic instead of Divine Magic, should be classed as Errata and the spells rewritten as Divine Spells.

Why? Hykim, Waha and Kyger Litor have always been regarded as spirit-based cults rather than Theist cults, to a lesser extent in RQ3 and to a greater length in HQ. I think in this case the authors did it right and gave an interpretation that is more colourful than RQ3. CoG 2 is good as is, at least 99% of it.

I'm with Simon here. You could make an argument for rewriting these cults as spirit cults and therefore the magic they provide except that's not what has happened in CoG2. Basically, for reasons best known to Mongoose they banned Divine Magic from CoG so an editor went through and cut and pasted the word rune where there is divine. This problem is exacerbated because the person who wrote the spirit magic rules did so before MRQ was published so the spirit magic rules now make no sense. I still don't know how spirit magic is supposed to work.

Finally, some of the more egregious Gloranthan mistakes are the cause of editors pruning to fit page length or simply deciding that something looks wrong and chopping it; I'm looking at you Sever Spirit.

Cults of Glorantha 1 is on the whole OK but CoG2 is a train wreck with large sections of it being unusable.

 

[RosenMcStern]

This problem is exacerbated because the person who wrote the spirit magic rules did so before MRQ was published so the spirit magic rules now make no sense. I still don't know how spirit magic is supposed to work.

It is clear that some rules were written with old-school spirit combat in mind, but I would rather fix spirit combat than CoG. Do not forget that Jeff Kyer and Robin Laws wrote that one, and they certainly have a deeper insight in Glorantha than the ones who wrote the core books.

Finally, some of the more egregious Gloranthan mistakes are the cause of editors pruning to fit page length or simply deciding that something looks wrong and chopping it; I'm looking at you Sever Spirit.

Yes, this was probably the case.

Cults of Glorantha 1 is on the whole OK but CoG2 is a train wreck with large sections of it being unusable.

Which ones? I could find some points to be clarified, but no unusable parts in spirit magic.

 

[atgxtg]

Well, in fact they prefer to call them "Updates". Just like Microsoft does not make "patches" to fix bugs, but "Service packs to enhance customer experience".

Can I use that for a signature? I could see paraphrasing that and applying it to many different walks of life.


I think the only way a fanbased errata threat would work would be if someone repected for their knowledge of Glorantha were in charge of the project as edtior, or if decised were made by committee.

Both possible, but difficult.

Even within Mongoose not everyone agrees with things. Fro instance, I guess Severe Sprirt was in the book, but cut by an editor. So should it be there because it was in RQ3, bein in there because it was in the manuscript, or be left out because it was cut by the editor. And if left out, should the cults affected by it's loss get some other magic as compensation?

I think the best solution would be to have a revised edition, but have it written by someone like Robin Laws, who has more familaity with Glroantha. Otherwise I think we will be taking the same trip, but on differernt back roads.

Hell, if they could get Greg Stafford to do it....

 

[zozotroll]

I agree that it would take gifted indiviuals to make a fan errata work. I also think the two Simons are more or less perfect for that task. I certainly would use a list by them, but then I have been useing Simon RQ ideas for many years now.

As for CoG2 I have had two shamans play now, and it work OK, but I am also sure I am not doing it right.

 

[Loz]

This is something I have on my radar. Actually, its been on my radar since late August, but its been a busy year.

At present we don't know what form, or to what extent, any additional work we do on the CoGs will take. But, its an issue that is being considered seriously and will receive attention.

Loz

 

[TRose]

I think there should be a list some where , who gets what spell . We old timers for example know that devour book is a spell for Thanatar. , but since its runes are just mastery and truth, some one new could let Lhankor Mhy scribes get it with no problem. Same with Darklight since its only rune is darkness. Would be a great spell for Human Zorak Zorani , if all you knew was what was in the cult book

 

[RosenMcStern]

I think the only way a fanbased errata threat would work would be if someone repected for their knowledge of Glorantha were in charge of the project as edtior, or if decised were made by committee.

As everyone knows, a camel is a horse designed by a committee.

I do not know if I agree with your committee idea

I think the best solution would be to have a revised edition, but have it written by someone like Robin Laws, who has more familaity with Glroantha. Otherwise I think we will be taking the same trip, but on differernt back roads.

atgxtg, in case you did not notice, this thread is about throwing a whole book written by Robin Laws out of the window.

 

[Rurik]

atgxtg, in case you did not notice, this thread is about throwing a whole book written by Robin Laws out of the window.

Actually the Cults books are by Jeff Kyer, who if anything is more involved with Glorantha than Robin Laws.

I think most of the problems are editorial, in terms of Gloranthan familiarity, spell balance between magic types, and in converting material written with rules assumptions based on RQ3 to the very different rules for spirits used in MRQ.

 

[atgxtg]

As everyone knows, a camel is a horse designed by a committee.
I do not know if I agree with your committee idea

As if nearly every RPG and supplment. The committee only works if the people in it are familiar with the setting, and what the effects of changes are.

It would have to be a good comitte.

And a Camel does have it's uses and can do things that a horse can't.

atgxtg, in case you did not notice, this thread is about throwing a whole book written by Robin Laws out of the window.

But not edited or controlled by him. A lot of the bugs in MRQ Gloranthan stuff comes not from the original authors, but from the changes made between the original submission and the finished product.

Much of what is "wrong" with MRQ Glorantha cam about because of differences between drafts of the rules used by the authors, the decisions of editors and so forth. That is actually worse than decision by committee, since with a committee someone will pick up on the obvious problems.

I think that many of the problems came from "improvements" made after the product was taken out of Robin's hands.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Okay, everyone is right. Jeff K. knows more about Glorantha than Robin L. It was the editor's fault. And a camel is worth something (but I still prefer a horse 90% of the times).

But I still have to see why CoG 2 is useless/unplayable/etc. Arrow Trance is now a Battle Magic spell? Well, I prefer this version. Devour book is connected to the Truth rune? Well, it is explained clearly that it is a spell provided only by a chaotic cult.

 

[Rurik]

Shamanism is very hard to follow, incomplete in areas, and contradicts itself in others. Making sense of it is a chore - a great number of the issues have been documented in the other cults errata thread.

There are Practices (Cults) than can be used, and spells, and all that, but you have to pretty much wing it on a lot of the details of the actual rules to use Shamanism.