Armageddon for the Dilgar
- Thread starter Nomad
- Start date
TenaciousB
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:
The fuss is that they aren't here yet.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Patience, effendi. All things come to he who waits.
tneva82 said:
Yes, we've said this about twenty times, and everytime we do someone else argues that you can't have any more ships in the Dilgar war because they're dead or didn't have the technology or one of any other amount of reasons why the Dilgar don't deserve anything.
Basically it seems that people on the forum who don't play Dilgar don't want to see them supported, rather they'd prefer Major game releases that are already superceded by S&P articles less than a month after the books release.
Burger said:
Yes.
Doesn't change the fact you don't need to bring back Dilgar from dead(like certain people here want) to support them.
There's great potential from Dilgar war book for example similar to Earth-Minbari book for example. Nice shiny ships for Dilgar, EA list appropriate for that time to match them(including some of the old versions with less advanced tech), league lists, lots and lots of fluff, scenarios and whatnot.
No need to bring Dilgar to crusade era to support them. Pity Pirv doesn't seem to realise it. Or Tenacious.
Black Omega
Mongoose
thePirv said:
....and which are still incorrect! :lol:
Thats totally not true. They would both be totally happy to have new ships, whatever their origin. But as Pirv said a couple of posts back, whenever they suggest some new ships, everyone jumps up and says "oh but how come we didn't know about them until now" or "The dilgar are dead how can they have new ships"... so they have been driven to these extreme explainations by other people's objections. Now you are objecting to these. And so the vicious circle is complete.tneva82 said:
TenaciousB
Mongoose
tneva82 said:
I really hope you don't work for mongoose, cos at least they listen to us players from time to time.
Black Omega
Mongoose
Burger said:
direct all answers to msprange@mongoosepublishing.com
[sarcasm]
Look guys the Dilgar are dead! All dead...you can't bring them back because JMS might cry if you did that!
So they can't have any new ships...oh and the Drakh can't have any either cause...well because they're new and they need time to um, bed in...yeah that's it.
Besides it wasn't in B5 Wars right?
[/sarcasm]
Seriously though, personally I think it would be great to see some new Dilgar ships at Armageddon level, I like the idea of the 'super-bolter' thing. Admittedly the canon thing doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to me (I play the game because of the game, not the show) but even the show didn't find it inconceivable that some (ok a) Dilgar survived the war - after all what about Deathwalker?
Even Mongoose got in with the action with the Ghosts of Omelos in S&P (even if that isn't tourney official). At the end of the day, if a lot of players want something, why not do it?
To be honest, I really don't understand the hostility some players seem to have to this, what is the problem exactly with the Dilgar getting new ships - so what if they're dead, its a simple piece of fluff that can be got round countless diffferent ways for the main objective of making the game more fun!
I think this is mostly likely to be for campaigns or one-off big battles rather than tournaments anyway and if you don't like something yourself you can always play be service dates etc to get a more "authentic" gaming experience.
For that matter some Armageddon for the Drakh (maybe variants of the Drakh Mothership?) would be cool too...
P.S. I once played a B5 rpg where the GM started a plot about a colony of Dilgar who had survived the war...I think we wantd to dress them up as Deathwalker and sell 'em to various members of the league...it didn't work out though Plus they were apparently Dilgar pacifists...yeah right 
Look guys the Dilgar are dead! All dead...you can't bring them back because JMS might cry if you did that!
So they can't have any new ships...oh and the Drakh can't have any either cause...well because they're new and they need time to um, bed in...yeah that's it.
Besides it wasn't in B5 Wars right?
[/sarcasm]
Seriously though, personally I think it would be great to see some new Dilgar ships at Armageddon level, I like the idea of the 'super-bolter' thing. Admittedly the canon thing doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to me (I play the game because of the game, not the show) but even the show didn't find it inconceivable that some (ok a) Dilgar survived the war - after all what about Deathwalker?
Even Mongoose got in with the action with the Ghosts of Omelos in S&P (even if that isn't tourney official). At the end of the day, if a lot of players want something, why not do it?
To be honest, I really don't understand the hostility some players seem to have to this, what is the problem exactly with the Dilgar getting new ships - so what if they're dead, its a simple piece of fluff that can be got round countless diffferent ways for the main objective of making the game more fun!
I think this is mostly likely to be for campaigns or one-off big battles rather than tournaments anyway and if you don't like something yourself you can always play be service dates etc to get a more "authentic" gaming experience.
For that matter some Armageddon for the Drakh (maybe variants of the Drakh Mothership?) would be cool too...
P.S. I once played a B5 rpg where the GM started a plot about a colony of Dilgar who had survived the war...I think we wantd to dress them up as Deathwalker and sell 'em to various members of the league...it didn't work out though
Plus they were apparently Dilgar pacifists...yeah right I agree that stories for explaining Dilgar active in the Crusade era should fit the 'rules' of the B5 setting, and as such am not crazy about time travel and certain other reasons.
However, I see nothing wrong with pockets of survivors. Lost expeditions, fleet bases that escaped discovery, etc... I could see them even making deals, especially with the Drakh if the two come into contact. They might not like each other, but both have nice big axes to grind with the rest of the galaxy.
As for an Armageddon ship, here's a thought-experiemnt to 'explain' why there might be one: Perhaps the Dilgar once had a large ship similar in role to an EA Explorer. A massive vessel that could do long-range exploration and similar. After the war, realizing they're lone and adrift, they probably added both habitation space, additional armaments, and similar to make it into a spacefaring city, drydock, and battle station.
As for a design, I'd like to see it incorporate a lot of elements from the existing Dilgar ships. There's the solar fins, the forked prows, etc...
However, I see nothing wrong with pockets of survivors. Lost expeditions, fleet bases that escaped discovery, etc... I could see them even making deals, especially with the Drakh if the two come into contact. They might not like each other, but both have nice big axes to grind with the rest of the galaxy.
As for an Armageddon ship, here's a thought-experiemnt to 'explain' why there might be one: Perhaps the Dilgar once had a large ship similar in role to an EA Explorer. A massive vessel that could do long-range exploration and similar. After the war, realizing they're lone and adrift, they probably added both habitation space, additional armaments, and similar to make it into a spacefaring city, drydock, and battle station.
As for a design, I'd like to see it incorporate a lot of elements from the existing Dilgar ships. There's the solar fins, the forked prows, etc...
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
thePirv said:
Why would you want an armageddon level ship? They're more a curse than a blessing. Unless you habitually play big games you'll rarely use one and aside from the Victory and perhaps the Adira, they're not worth their cost.
New ships and scenarios is one thing but why push for a most-likely useless ship?
A Dilgar War book would be great, with extra ships and scenarios from the war, unique variants and new League lists from those times. Maybe some Centauri designs as well (just to stick my oar in :wink: ) from the time of the Republic's greatest power. Sounds good to me, anyway.
thePirv said:
Who's resorting to shouting here? That's great mark of stupidity...
Anyway armageddon level dilgar isn't at all feasible idea. For one they wouldn't have lost the war with that powerfull ships...Might just as well give early EA armageddon level ship then.
What's the obsession with armageddon level ships anyway? Are you so simple minded that you can't think of cool new ships without resorting to armageddon level? What's wrong with other priority levels? You know...Patrol, skirmish, raid, battle, war...Heard of them before?
No, the great mark of stupidity is saying stupid things. Observe below.tneva82 said:
Imagine this scenario, that has been explained many many times in this thread. If you've read it as you claim, you'll have heard it before. EA has 20 Novas, and Dilgar have 1 Armageddon level ship. Who will win the fight? EA of course. One Armageddon level ship won't win the war. The winner of the war will be the one with te most powerful fleet (and tactics, experience, and luck). NOT the single most powerful ship, which can quite easily get blown up by a fleet of smaller ones.tneva82 said:
This just confirms that you haven't read much of this thread.
I really don't see a problem with giving any race Armageddon 'level' ships - even the Early days EA have room for one, just on the understanding that fluff-wise it was some sort of E-M war prototype which was too little, too late, and got cut apart by the advancing Minbari.
The Dilgar could indeed have been making some uber ship, but by the same token it could have been wiped out just after completion when their sun went pop. Just give it a 1 year in service date (like the Shadow Omega) and leave it at that. Since in-service dates are rarely observed, and since armageddon points rarely get played, what's the problem? At least it gives you the option to take a ridiculously expensive ship if you want.
The Dilgar could indeed have been making some uber ship, but by the same token it could have been wiped out just after completion when their sun went pop. Just give it a 1 year in service date (like the Shadow Omega) and leave it at that. Since in-service dates are rarely observed, and since armageddon points rarely get played, what's the problem? At least it gives you the option to take a ridiculously expensive ship if you want.
tneva82 said:
Why not? To use a real-world example, Germany built some truly massive warships and tanks in World War 2, but still lost. If anything, the big 'Death Star' projects can be counterproductive as they take substantial resources for something that is of very limited use.
In the case of the Dilgar, one Armageddon-level vessel might have been built, but wasn't able to participate in the closing days of the war due to being built far from their homeworld.
(Note: I don't have the DIlgar War book, and apologize if this doesn't fit the background.)
