Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
This.
Put ships that players are likely have at an early stage in CRB, put ships they are more likely to encounter than to use in HG.
Re-imagining High Guard's example ships
- Thread starter Shardan13
- Start date
Put ships that players are likely have at an early stage in CRB, put ships they are more likely to encounter than to use in HG.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
And nine times out of ten, "there's a huge Imperial Navy ship between you and the jump limit and it's telling you to cut thrust and stand ready to be boarded" is all you need.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
“It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs. I've outrun imperial starships. Not the local bulk cruisers, mind you. I'm talking about the big Corellian ships now. She's fast enough for you, old man.”
Those are usually called cruisers, or battlecruisers. "Budget" battleships have generally fared poorly in the line of battle. I don't see a lower TL world being awed since they would know the difference even if they cannot build it themselves. After all, they would have had to emigrate to the world and they would have knowledge of high tech.
Most navies can't afford to have fluffy ships like that in their fleets - there is never enough money or hulls to do all the tasks they need to do. That's been a truism for naval operations since naval operations began.
You are referring to Haven building battleships instead of dreadnoughts and super-dreadnoughts. Weber explained their reasoning for that - the battleships were meant to be deployed internally since they were more than powerful enough to defeat any internal enemies - which is also why they had heavier missile armaments and oversized ground troop contingents.
Manticore skipped building battleships because they couldn't afford to dilute their limited numbers with ships that could not fight in the line of battle. They used battlecruisers to fill that gap - as escorts for the fleet and raiders.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It was utter bollocks then, and it is utter bollocks now, despite Solo (which I thought was a really good film).
Well, at least in the 2022 HG, some of the designs do actually use some of the equipment variation. But also, the more efficient modules come at a cost premium, so there has to be a justification to go there.
It DOES make sense that the adventure class ships should be as baseline as possible. Navies probably don't have much issue with allowing for premium parts; civilian operations - especially operating away from the hub worlds - would benefit from as much of their ship being made from dead standard parts as possible. Unless the owner wishes to hot rod them. Or was forced to make do with some rubbish that was all they could find on that backwater dump. But neither case should affect the default design description.
It DOES make sense that the adventure class ships should be as baseline as possible. Navies probably don't have much issue with allowing for premium parts; civilian operations - especially operating away from the hub worlds - would benefit from as much of their ship being made from dead standard parts as possible. Unless the owner wishes to hot rod them. Or was forced to make do with some rubbish that was all they could find on that backwater dump. But neither case should affect the default design description.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
The problem with the the ACS is most of them are poorly designed for their intended roles and they SHOULD be using the cost saving options but they almost never do. Add to the fact that less 1in 3 are at least error free and rules compliant and it means they all need to be redone, or at least looked at closely.
I disagree regarding the cost saving options.
Back to CT they're presented as the generic ships, built from standard components. It makes no sense for the baseline designs to be either budget or premium.
By all means add in budget and premium versions if you wish.
As far as errors... some are more important than others. Simple flubs in costs can be corrected, but RARELY make any practical difference. A MCr100 ship has for all practical purposes the same purchase and running costs as a MCr105 one.
Errors of available capacity are worse. You can add to or cull from Cargo to make it work, but should not have to. On the other hand, the standard designs do not inherently HAVE to match up exactly with the custom construction sequence either. A little bit of wiggle room isn't going to kill anyone.
Back to CT they're presented as the generic ships, built from standard components. It makes no sense for the baseline designs to be either budget or premium.
By all means add in budget and premium versions if you wish.
As far as errors... some are more important than others. Simple flubs in costs can be corrected, but RARELY make any practical difference. A MCr100 ship has for all practical purposes the same purchase and running costs as a MCr105 one.
Errors of available capacity are worse. You can add to or cull from Cargo to make it work, but should not have to. On the other hand, the standard designs do not inherently HAVE to match up exactly with the custom construction sequence either. A little bit of wiggle room isn't going to kill anyone.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
The cost saving components are standard parts and should be used on ships that are supposed to be used by small traders and businesses that are forced to be cost conscious in order to compete. They also represent designs that are easier and faster to build for shipyards which would make them attractive to small and low volume yards trying to increase profits and local polities that are trying to expand their presence in local space.
At least half of the errors are cost issues. But this makes it difficult to compare ships with similar use cases and may overly favor certain designs that error on charging too little vs designs the error in the other direction. It is often due improper costing of components but it's almost as likely that it's bad math. Very rarely it's a typo that makes a big difference on the cost.
Size problems are a bigger deal. Most of the time, you can just add or take away from cargo space, but not always.
And a lot of designs could be more interesting with simple additions of materials or equipment that is often overlooked.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
The CRB and HG ships should be held to a high standard as they ARE the standard new designs will be compared against. You can't do proper modified designs if the original design isn't valid by the rules. Hard to learn how to design ships when the archetype ships don't correctly follow the rules. Fewer but better ships in the rules would to me be preferable.
Unless you are using those published designs to test your understanding of the creation rules. A single worked example rarely exercises all the options and some options are poorly described. Publishing errata would fix the simple typos errors issue, but we seldom get errata and need to trawl through forums for clues.
If you cannot design the ship you want with the design rules you created then maybe the design rules are not fit for purpose.
If costs are mutable then why even put any in? Why have any design rules at all. A spreadsheet isn't that hard to make, but if every ship breaks the rules it becomes inconsistent very quickly and we have forum wars about RAW vs RAI. What we actually want are RAW that are RAI.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
In theory, Core could have a selection of common, generic civilian spacecraft.
High Guard could be more specific Imperium based classes and types.
Fighting Ships of could be specific faction military classes and types.
High Guard could be more specific Imperium based classes and types.
Fighting Ships of could be specific faction military classes and types.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Let Me get this right, you are advocating for Mongoose to not follow their own rules for ship building?
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Arkathan might disagree. He puts in a ton of work to get his handling everything. It is hard but he makes it happen.
The book actually explained why the speed/distance line was said. The maw as a series of black holes and Solo flew close to them, thus he shaved off distance and time for the run. But without that background info that the movie didn't provide, it makes no sense.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I reiterate my bollocks comment, no amount of book retcon technobabble handwavium based on a total misunderstanding of science terms can make up for the real reason, Lucas didn't know what he was talking about,
As to "The maw as a series of black holes and Solo flew close to them, thus he shaved off distance and time for the run" that is so full of bad science it is no better an explanation.
As to "The maw as a series of black holes and Solo flew close to them, thus he shaved off distance and time for the run" that is so full of bad science it is no better an explanation.
In a sci-fi fantansy movie that gave us a mystical force that binds us all together, energy swords that cut through anything, an army of armored troopers who can't seem to hit the broadside of a barn, and torpedoes that can make 90 degree turns, Han's boast seems to fit within the greater movie plot rather easily.
