Armageddon for the Dilgar

[thePirv]

HAVE you actually read this thread or are you just REALLY stupid?

Who's resorting to shouting here? That's great mark of stupidity...

Anyway armageddon level dilgar isn't at all feasible idea. For one they wouldn't have lost the war with that powerfull ships...Might just as well give early EA armageddon level ship then.

What's the obsession with armageddon level ships anyway? Are you so simple minded that you can't think of cool new ships without resorting to armageddon level? What's wrong with other priority levels? You know...Patrol, skirmish, raid, battle, war...Heard of them before?

Shouting seems to be the only way to get anything through your thick skull since you obviously haven't read the thread, despite your claims to the contrary. Also, shouting isn't a sign of ignorance, it's a sign of contempt.

And as to the obsession with Arma level ships, it's not so much an obsession with getting Arma level ships, it's more for a feeling of inclusion and support. But having the option to field an Arma level ship for either the Drakh or Dilgar would be nice.
The other priority levels already include ships, it would just be nice to have the option to include a ship at every level.

 

[Alexb83]

I think the Vorlons, Shadows, Minbari and Ancients, ISA and the Early EA have far more room to complain if you're going to try the 'must have a ship at avery PL' argument.

The dilgar have a ship at every PL except Armageddon (faar better than early EA) - and strictly speaking, Armageddon rotates around the crusade era - when the technologies that permit the building of these ships become available. Obviously the Dilgar didn't get that far.

I'd no more expect a Dilgar Armageddon ship than a Markab one, tbh...

There is room to squeeze an Armageddon ship into the list... but what's the point, really? Sure, you could argue that there could have been a Dilgar Superdreadnought, or an EA uber minbari killing ship of doom, both of which never saw active combat before they were destroyed. Will they really enhance your game any?

 

[thePirv]

Then let them complain if that's what they want. We're not gonna stop them, unlike half the people on the boards.

Mongoose say they listen to the fans. We're simply waiting for them to listen. And besides, this has swung onto Armageddon level ships somehow (I'm not sure why that happened, but i don't see why it shouldn't happen), but the whole point of the thread necromancy was to find out where the promised Dilgar updates are. Matt's already said there won't be Arma level Dilgar, he did say there'd be new Dilgar in S&P. Still waiting on that, despite the Drazi getting new ships n this months S&P as well as having been included in Armageddon.

 

[katadder]

going back to this again? as has been stated theres alot of fleets that dont get ships at every level. the drazi, vree and raiders also dont get armageddon level ships. the abbai dont get war level ship, neither do the raiders. and the fleets mentioned by the guy above dont get ships at all levels either. its just the way the system works, some races do get ships at higher levels but not lower, and vice versa. play a dilgar campaign with in service dates and you have bigger ships than almost every fleet out there certainly none of the leagu fleets get above battle level before 2232. hell the brakiri hardly have anything in that era. and then you have the early EA with battle being their highest level too.
dilgar era campaign (highest level):
abbai:battle (no raid ships)
brakiri: skirmish (just the ikorta and brikorta)
drazi: skirmish
vree:skirmish
EA:battle

and those are the sorts of fleets that the dilgar did fight. yes the minbari have pretty much their whole fleet and centauri also do well but the narn only have rothans. so to play a dilgar era campaign is out of most peoples fleet scale or if they have one of the league or EA early era they dont have ships to that level.

 

[thePirv]

going back to this again? as has been stated theres alot of fleets that dont get ships at every level. the drazi, vree and raiders also dont get armageddon level ships. the abbai dont get war level ship, neither do the raiders. and the fleets mentioned by the guy above dont get ships at all levels either. its just the way the system works, some races do get ships at higher levels but not lower, and vice versa. play a dilgar campaign with in service dates and you have bigger ships than almost every fleet out there certainly none of the leagu fleets get above battle level before 2232. hell the brakiri hardly have anything in that era. and then you have the early EA with battle being their highest level too.
dilgar era campaign (highest level):
abbai:battle (no raid ships)
brakiri: skirmish (just the ikorta and brikorta)
drazi: skirmish
vree:skirmish
EA:battle

and those are the sorts of fleets that the dilgar did fight. yes the minbari have pretty much their whole fleet and centauri also do well but the narn only have rothans. so to play a dilgar era campaign is out of most peoples fleet scale or if they have one of the league or EA early era they dont have ships to that level.

Ok, to re-iterate because people obviously aren't listening. The thread originally kicked off because the Dilgar and Drakh were left out of Arma. That was solved, no worries. Promises were made of new stuff in S&P in a few months.
Well, a few months on and there's still no new Dilgar, but fleets that were catered for in Armageddon are getting more new stuff in S&P. So, back to the quest for more answers.
Then some people started their anti-dilgar campaign again crying that the Dilgar are extinct and don't deserve anything new because it makes the baby JMS cry.

 

[Alexb83]

I don't think it's a question of 'deserve' - fluff wise, and I'm sure JMS would support this statement: some races simply never reached the technological level of the Vorlons and Shadows which = Armageddon ships.

The Dilgar are one. The Markab another. In fact, in the Crusade era, anyone who hadn't joined the league or become infiltrated by the Drakh shouldn't be in the Armageddon bracket because they don't have access to the tech required.

I fully support new ships for existing fleets - I doubt very much that Mongoose will leave anyone behind, I think the key here is patience - they can only release so much at any one time. I would love to get my hands on a Skirmish level Liandra for the Minbari fleet, or an official permit to use the White Star in ISA member fleets - but I aint holding my breath.

 

[thePirv]

I would love to get my hands on a Skirmish level Liandra for the Minbari fleet, or an official permit to use the White Star in ISA member fleets - but I aint holding my breath.

Then don't hold your breath. Make your voice heard. If Mongoose listen to the fans it'll happen.
Start a thread and don't quit until you're told either "Yes, ok, you win, we'll do what you ask" or "Never gonna happen, so shut it" or some version thereof.

 

[Burger]

I don't think it's a question of 'deserve' - fluff wise, and I'm sure JMS would support this statement: some races simply never reached the technological level of the Vorlons and Shadows which = Armageddon ships.

Armageddon level is not a "tech" level. It is simply an artificial structure to balance the power of ships against ech other.


(for the 3,000th time)

 

[Davesaint]

going back to this again? as has been stated theres alot of fleets that dont get ships at every level. the drazi, vree and raiders also dont get armageddon level ships. the abbai dont get war level ship, neither do the raiders. and the fleets mentioned by the guy above dont get ships at all levels either. its just the way the system works, some races do get ships at higher levels but not lower, and vice versa. play a dilgar campaign with in service dates and you have bigger ships than almost every fleet out there certainly none of the leagu fleets get above battle level before 2232. hell the brakiri hardly have anything in that era. and then you have the early EA with battle being their highest level too.
dilgar era campaign (highest level):
abbai:battle (no raid ships)
brakiri: skirmish (just the ikorta and brikorta)
drazi: skirmish
vree:skirmish
EA:battle

and those are the sorts of fleets that the dilgar did fight. yes the minbari have pretty much their whole fleet and centauri also do well but the narn only have rothans. so to play a dilgar era campaign is out of most peoples fleet scale or if they have one of the league or EA early era they dont have ships to that level.

Ok, to re-iterate because people obviously aren't listening. The thread originally kicked off because the Dilgar and Drakh were left out of Arma. That was solved, no worries. Promises were made of new stuff in S&P in a few months.
Well, a few months on and there's still no new Dilgar, but fleets that were catered for in Armageddon are getting more new stuff in S&P. So, back to the quest for more answers.
Then some people started their anti-dilgar campaign again crying that the Dilgar are extinct and don't deserve anything new because it makes the baby JMS cry.

It's been less than 1 month since Armageddon was released. The release date for it was 10/6.

Matt indicated around the release date that there would be Dilgar and Drakh releases within the next couple of months. Frankly I would give him 2-3 months before I would start complaining about the lack of love for your dilgar and the Drakh.

Besides if you look at the Dilgar fleet tactically and look for the holes in the fleet, what they need is a good small carrier and some more jump capable ships, not some monstrosity that moves slower than a wahant that you will never field because the scenarios aren't large enough to field an Armageddon level ship. Also I would lobby for Matt to fix the Garasoch and have them add the Carrier and Fleet Carrier trait to it so that it is actually worth fielding.

Dave

Dave

 

[thePirv]

Armageddon level is not a "tech" level. It is simply an artificial structure to balance the power of ships against ech other.


(for the 3,000th time)

Maybe you oughta make that part of your sig ffs. Then people might actually take notice lol

 

[Burger]

Armageddon level is not a "tech" level. It is simply an artificial structure to balance the power of ships against ech other.


(for the 3,000th time)

Maybe you oughta make that part of your sig ffs. Then people might actually take notice lol

I think most people wouldn't take notice if I carved it into their retinas with a blunt potato...

 

[thePirv]

Hmmm, you may have a point. Most people seem to have a selective deafness/blindness when it comes to doing anything for the Dilgar/Drakh getting Arma stuff

 

[tneva82]

Hmmm, you may have a point. Most people seem to have a selective deafness/blindness when it comes to doing anything for the Dilgar/Drakh getting Arma stuff

Maybe some don't want to give stuff dilgar shouldn't have just for sake of them having it...

They don't need it from game balance reason so why bland the race into less interesting race...

 

[thePirv]

Hmmm, you may have a point. Most people seem to have a selective deafness/blindness when it comes to doing anything for the Dilgar/Drakh getting Arma stuff

Maybe some don't want to give stuff dilgar shouldn't have just for sake of them having it...

They don't need it from game balance reason so why bland the race into less interesting race...

Most races don't need new stuff, doesn't stop them getting new ships. It's hardly blanding them into a less interesting race, it's about including them with all the others and supporting the players. Basically what you're saying is that the Narn, Centauri, Minbari and EA should never get another ship. And the ISA and league races should get a couple more ships, then ACTA should be left to stagnate with no new ships being introduced for existing races. Grow up.

 

[tneva82]

Most races don't need new stuff, doesn't stop them getting new ships.

And I'm not against giving Dilgar new ships. As long as it's appropriate. Armageddon level ships just are too powerfull for them to have existed for Dilgar at that time(heck even war is pushing it). They would have been unstoppable rather than destroyed to extinction.

Basically what you're saying is that the Narn, Centauri, Minbari and EA should never get another ship.

If I would then I wouldn't be so eager to see new appropriate ships yet I am.

You might want to read what I say rather than giving random responses.

Grow up.

Lol! You seem to have need for that. Let's see...Shouting and insulting...Yep. Sounds a lot like 6 year kid.

 

[Burger]

And I'm not against giving Dilgar new ships. As long as it's appropriate. Armageddon level ships just are too powerfull for them to have existed for Dilgar at that time(heck even war is pushing it). They would have been unstoppable rather than destroyed to extinction.

1 Dilgar armageddon level ship.
20 EA Nova.
Who will win?
Why do you think 1 Armageddon ship would cause them to win the entire war?

Why do I get the feeling I am repeating myself?

They would have been unstoppable rather than destroyed to extinction.

So you're saying that any race who has an Armageddon level ship is unstoppable? Thats just laughable.

 

[tneva82]

1 Dilgar armageddon level ship.
20 EA Nova.
Who will win?

Why you think 1 dilgar armageddon level ship would go toe to toe alone against 20 EA nova?

 

[thePirv]

And I'm not against giving Dilgar new ships. As long as it's appropriate. Armageddon level ships just are too powerfull for them to have existed for Dilgar at that time(heck even war is pushing it). They would have been unstoppable rather than destroyed to extinction.

Then try reading the bloody thread...

Ok, to re-iterate because people obviously aren't listening. The thread originally kicked off because the Dilgar and Drakh were left out of Arma. That was solved, no worries. Promises were made of new stuff in S&P in a few months.
Well, a few months on and there's still no new Dilgar, but fleets that were catered for in Armageddon are getting more new stuff in S&P. So, back to the quest for more answers.
Then some people started their anti-dilgar campaign again crying that the Dilgar are extinct and don't deserve anything new because it makes the baby JMS cry.

 

[Davesaint]

Most races don't need new stuff, doesn't stop them getting new ships.

And I'm not against giving Dilgar new ships. As long as it's appropriate. Armageddon level ships just are too powerfull for them to have existed for Dilgar at that time(heck even war is pushing it). They would have been unstoppable rather than destroyed to extinction.

Basically what you're saying is that the Narn, Centauri, Minbari and EA should never get another ship.

If I would then I wouldn't be so eager to see new appropriate ships yet I am.

You might want to read what I say rather than giving random responses.

Grow up.

Lol! You seem to have need for that. Let's see...Shouting and insulting...Yep. Sounds a lot like 6 year kid.

Most of the Armageddon level ships blow chunks. There are really only 2 decent ones out there in the Victory and The Adira, however, I think I would rather have 2 Octurians or 3 Tertius than an Adira and I would be tempted to take 6 whitestars over a Victory, but that is not as clear cut.

As I posted before, I don't really think the Dilgar need an Armageddon level ship, what they need are an improvemet to the Garasoch and some decent varrients off of their current hulls. Afterall, you can get 6 Targraths for 1 Armageddon level hull.


Dave

 

[Burger]

1 Dilgar armageddon level ship.
20 EA Nova.
Who will win?

Why you think 1 dilgar armageddon level ship would go toe to toe alone against 20 EA nova?

Well they don't have much choice do they, why do you think the EA fought the battle of the line against overwhelming odds? Its their only chance for survival. EA turn up with 20 Novas, and all the Dilgar can spare is 1 Arma level ship... what they gonna do, hand over their homeworld and say "we'll save this big ship for another day, just in case"?