Armageddon for the Dilgar

[Burger]

I would max out at war for Dilgar, they died ling before the tecnology became available for an armageddon ship (excusing the Ancients of course )

How many times................
Armageddon level has nothing to do with tech level, its about the raw power of a ship.

 

[TenaciousB]

I can't remember who it was (think it was SNJ) who had a really good idea for a ship, and possibly a Super Heavy Bolter weapon.

My only contribution would be for an Armageddon/War Level ship to have a bolter weapon called a Super Heavy Bolter, created by adding 5 inches and SAP to the normal Heavy Bolter as well as maybe taking a few AD off as well.

I would max out at war for Dilgar, they died ling before the tecnology became available for an armageddon ship (excusing the Ancients of course )

Again, Armageddon is not about a time - it's about a power level of ships. There's no reason why the Dilgar couldn't be given an arma ship that may have been just finished, in a shipyard somewhere, before they even got to use it fully.

 

[H]

I would max out at war for Dilgar, they died ling before the tecnology became available for an armageddon ship (excusing the Ancients of course )

How many times................
Armageddon level has nothing to do with tech level, its about the raw power of a ship.

ok call me stupid here, but the raw power of a ship is defined by having the relevant technology to adequetly power, build and arm such a ship

could the Germans in WWII build a nuclear sub, no they couldn't, yes, they could have built a damned big powerful sub i suspect, but it still wouldn't be as powerful as a modern submarine, hence technology is a viable part of building a better ship.

 

[Burger]

Stupid

The raw power of a ship is is offensive capability plus its defensive capability. It doesn't take high levels of technology to put 20ft armour plates onto a metal brick, paint it green and slap on 3,000 heavy bolters. Throw in 2x Mankhat fusion reactors, a couple of engines and a token light pulsar on the Aft, and you're good to go.

 

[thePirv]

It's totally possible to have a Tikrit with heavier weapons thrown on the front and less speed, make it slower than a Mankhat, but easily capable of vapourising stuff in a single salvo.
The ship doesn't need ATP, Flight Comp etc. and could still be a viable Arma level ship.

Or a super Mankhat that loses AD in all arc's but get's "Super Heavy Bolters" out the front, things like that.
Necessity is the mother of invention and the Dilgar were pretty needy towards the end. Regular things like having to worry about bankrupting the society wouldn't be a factor towards the end for the Dilgar since money is useless if your entire race gets wiped out.

 

[H]

in theory, in reality it would probably blow up through poor engineering.
I view Armageddon in the younger races as a stage when they have finally figured out HOW to bolt all their cool gizmo's together correctly! as well as add a bit of shared tech and suchlike. The Dilgar had no friends, and no money, and wereseriously short of resources. They were hugely unlikely to try and find time to build the mother of all ships

 

[TenaciousB]

Then introduce the Dilgar back as a race into the game using one of the following well-used Sci-fi mechanics:

1) Cloning
2) Time travel
3) Lost Outpost
4) Parallel Universes colliding.

There's probably more.

Pick one, and give me a frickin Arma ship.

 

[Black Omega]

The issue of tech level is relevant only from the point of view of how far along the development line each individual race is, regardless of the other races. The older races are far along the development line e.g. minbari and hence get armageddon ships. Earth Alliance are further behind and only on the cusp of armageddon level ships- hence they only get them for the later periods. But i thought that the Dilgar were more advanced than the Earth Alliance (thus the reason for the EA and various league worlds teaming up to kick Dilgar posterior!) , in which case they would reach the armageddon tech level point earlier in the overall timeline and hence should be allowed at least a prototype armageddon level ship.

 

[Black Omega]

The Dilgar had no friends, and no money, and wereseriously short of resources. They were hugely unlikely to try and find time to build the mother of all ships

Hang on, wouldn't that make them more likely to try to build a prototype uber weapon? To use your earlier analogy the Germans by the late war had no friends, no money and were seriously short of resources but yet they were the ones who were very active in promoting v-weapons to try to use superior technology to overcome their inferior numbers and resources etc.

 

[H]

The Dilgar had no friends, and no money, and wereseriously short of resources. They were hugely unlikely to try and find time to build the mother of all ships

Hang on, wouldn't that make them more likely to try to build a prototype uber weapon? To use your earlier analogy the Germans by the late war had no friends, no money and were seriously short of resources but yet they were the ones who were very active in promoting v-weapons to try to use superior technology to overcome their inferior numbers and resources etc.

Good point, however the Germans still had Germany, the dilgar had, um, err, bugger all apart from angry subjugated planets they didn't know about. I just don't see a Dilgar armageddon ship fitting into the backstory possibly, unless it was a one off unique ship like the Centauri Dusk Coutari.
could be a chance to design one of them with a cool backstory i suppose

 

[Burger]

Well while a certain level of tech would be required to hold the armageddon level ships together physically, they don't necessaarily need much. Armageddon is not a tech level, it is an artificial ship-balancing mechanism. All the Dilgar need for an Armageddon level ship, is a ship that is (roughly) as powerful as 2 Mankhat or Mishakur. It doesn't need to be any more advanced.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

I had six Dilgar variants drafted and partially tested, plus the (hypothetical) superdreadnought; a command variant Tikrit, a fast assault cruiser- not quite capable of keeping up with the strike cruisers but a big step forward over the assault ships- a sniper style, superheavy bolter armed Dreadnought (war), a less forward focused Battle level strike cruiser for which I cheerfully intended to half- inch the Tratharti name, after all Mongoose aren't using it now, are they? A Raid- class disruptor torpedo heavy missile cruiser, and a more conventionally laid out Skirmish level fleet destroyer.
They haven't been posted because, well, two reasons.
The in game reason; perfection is the enemy of production. Keep tinkering with a warship, or a fighter (Me262, type XXI U-boat, Tiger tank, the list of merely German WW2 examples is very long, and you can find many more from other nations and other wars if you look), and you run the risk of delaying it's actual entry into service until it's too late for even a genuine wonder weapon to achieve any real effect. The Dilgar had their backs against the wall- to be strictly accurate, the nova. They didn't need perfection eventually, they needed good enough, right now. Arguably, with the Tikrit and Targrath, they had it. No doubt they had many, many designs on the drawing board, ready for phase three (sieze territory, consolidate, expand outward again), but that was where the majority of them stayed.
The out of game reason; I have enough trouble finding opponents for my Dilgar with official, sanctioned, there's-the-logo Mongoose designs. I virtually have to throw a temper tantrum every time I want to field them, and while I do get a chance to trot them out from time to time, I'm not that good an actor, not on a long term basis. It erodes your credibility, and while I'd like to claim that I'm pretty incredible already, :lol: Rule 2 forbids. Getting the locals or the Dunfermline crew to agree to house designs on a permanent rather than playtest basis is possible...but not for the Dilgar. They are seen as too good already, the threshing machine doesn't really need another blade.

 

[Black Omega]

Good point, however the Germans still had Germany, the dilgar had, um, err, bugger all apart from angry subjugated planets they didn't know about. I just don't see a Dilgar armageddon ship fitting into the backstory possibly, unless it was a one off unique ship like the Centauri Dusk Coutari.
could be a chance to design one of them with a cool backstory i suppose

Yeah thats what i had in mind too. A one off (or two off) prototype ship pressed into service in desperation.

 

[thePirv]

Just like it says in the Tikrit fluff in the Dilgar fleet book, there were other BIGGER BETTER ships being built but that weren't deployed into active duty before the war finished

 

[TenaciousB]

I was thinking of a Rohric variant - make it speed 8 and you have a very good battle level ship.

 

[Davesaint]

Have you tried any of Rbax's Dilgar variants yet?

They're pretty interesting.


Dave

 

[Slightly Norse John]

The Ochlavita- B and Targrath-B I find a waste of a perfectly good primary hull. Trading two Thorun for more than half a Skirmish ship's forward firepower, or four for, again, more than half the firepower on my primary killing machine; no. For Nial or Tishat, maybe, but for Thorun, with their poor dogfight and 1AD (admittedly a very impressive AD, but still only one of it), you need the numbers. I'd say a minimum of three wings before they get enough momentum to be effective.
Abrithi can achieve something by sheer surprise value, and they're a much more efficient bet for a troopship than one of- if you think Earthforce has flying bricks, what would you call the Wahant? Pyramid block? Not really combatants, though. Mission specials, definitely.
In a larger game, I might have a Leskrati hanging about somewhere near the back row. The feeble hull pretty much devalues all it's other stats- classic Solarhawk Syndrome, otherwise sound capabilities on a weak hull makes you that much higher priority a target; so I refuse to expose it, keep it back and snipe, and enjoy the Command bonus.
With one of the nicest initiative sinks in the game (that phrase again), moving first isn't really a problem- but getting to shoot first more often is always nice.
Speaking of which, the Rishekur; definitely the star of the bunch for me. The Jashakar works for ELINT and assassinations- massive point blank firepower- but it is not a conventional combat vessel. The Rishekur is, apart from it's speed. Which is incredible. Apart from that, it's a credible main force warship, very decent firepower, still valuable as a sink, wider threat zone, and a surprisingly useful Dodge. I never fail to deploy some patrol Dilgar, and usually an even or 1;2 mix of Rishekur and Jashakar.

 

[Hash]

Dilgar? Who are they? 8)

 

[Davesaint]

With fighters firing first in Armageddon, the Thorun becomes a much more useful fighter, especially since it has afterburners. Give the Targrath-B Carrier 2 and maybe even Fleet Carrier and it would be pretty nasty

Dave

 

[tneva82]

Then introduce the Dilgar back as a race into the game using one of the following well-used Sci-fi mechanics:

None that are appropriate in B5 universe...