Anti initiative sink house rule

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Hi

This may have been done before, but if it has I don't remember seeing it.

Been playing a few games like this recently, and it speeds up play and generally seams to make games more fun, so here you go guys.

All fleets will are limited by a control limit on how many 'tactical units' they can use effectively.

Tactical unit is either a lone ship or a squadron.

Limit is based on the priority level of the biggest ship in the fleet.
Currently using:
Patrol = 1
Skirmish = 2
Raid = 3
Battle = 4
War = 5
Armageddon = 6
with a bonus equal to the command rating.

At the start of the battle your fleet has to be organised into squadrons to be within this limit, thus preventing swarms from initiative sinking all other fleets into uselessness.

Interested to hear what people think.

 

[Davesaint]

I don't see why you have to limit initiative sinking. The races that are boresight dependent need initiative sinks. The best thing that you can do to limit the amount of ships on the table is to go back to the FAP breakdowns in SFOS. That and make sure that some of the patrol ships that are too strong are brought back down to a reasonable level in 2nd Ed.

Dave

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Ok, init sinking leads to wierd things happening.

Small fast ships tend to end up moving first, before the larger and slower ships, which is obviously not that logical.

It's also been said that massed swarms makes using larger ships impossible, which isn't the sort of game we wanted to be playing.

End of the day though, this is just a house rule to change the dynamic of the game, nothing more.

 

[Davesaint]

Ok, init sinking leads to wierd things happening.

Small fast ships tend to end up moving first, before the larger and slower ships, which is obviously not that logical.

It's also been said that massed swarms makes using larger ships impossible, which isn't the sort of game we wanted to be playing.

End of the day though, this is just a house rule to change the dynamic of the game, nothing more.

The problem is that if you make one race unplayable by implementing a house rule, then that becomes a bigger issue. Try to play the Drazi with the house rule you have set up and see how many boresights you get.

Plus, why wouldn't small ships that are fast move first? In naval combat, it's the small ships that move out ahead of the capital ships for screening and scouting purposes. Why wouldn't that apply here?

Dave

 

[Celisasu]

You've basically killed the Drazi and Narn who depend upon initiative sinks to actually achieve anything. The EA gets hurt too depending on their fleet composition. This house rule is a bad idea as it makes some races completely unplayable.

 

[Myrm]

I've seen other games where the initiative sink thing has been changed slightly by allowing whoever won the initiative and chooses to go second to reserve one unit until after ALL the oppo have gone. This allows the use of lots of ships to get the jump on some of the enemy but there's always one ship that can scoot.

Workable in ACtA?

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Actually, it helped the Narn and earthforce. Of course it may be down to the local conditions of the game group. But it has meant that the bigger ships of both fleets actually get to do something. Previously they had been prevented from using their major ships by fleets with greater numbers of sinks.

However I do see what your saying, fleets like the Drazi haven't been tried under this rule. It was an idea to get the games running quicker, nothing more. Never intended it to be a permanent change to the core rules, just a useful tool for the right occasions.

What I will say is that if your playing big games with fleets that don't rely on initiative sinks, give it a try. it encourages the players to think about using ships in squadrons, which can change the dynamic of the game.

 

[Apachex]

I've used phased initiative (i.e. Battletech style) and like how it works. That way when I win init I get to move at least 1 ship last.

 

[Sulfurdown]

Since Drazi are mentioned, does anyone have a good Raid-5 Drazi fleet to put up for review?

 

[OnlyTheShadowKnows]

You know I am going to have to go with everyone on the whole, "Don't stop the initiative sinks," group. I think you need them not to mention that most fleets do have a ship or two that can help you as well. For Narns and especially for League, they need them. Otherwise I think all us Shadows would have an unfair advantage.

 

[Burger]

Since Drazi are mentioned, does anyone have a good Raid-5 Drazi fleet to put up for review?

I've done well with 8x Strikehawk and 4x Vaarl... of course you can replace the Vaarls for Eyehawks if you want pure Drazi. "Done well" means won one tournament with it, then came 8th out of 12 in the next... so mixed results, no-one can claim it is broken

 

[The Hobbybox]

There is a very simple way to deal with the 'initiative sinks' problem.

KILL THEM FIRST!

If your opponent is using small 'squishy' init sinks to sucker you into having to move your big ships before him, then spend the first turn aiming your big ships at his/her init sinks and obliterate them.
Yes, it may seem like a waste to fire a 3 or 4 dice beam at a hull 4 or 5, low damage ship, but he won't be using it next turn!

 

[Burger]

"Kill them first" doesn't work against the Vaarls in my fleet above
Shooting at a stealth 5 ship from over 20" is not advisable when there's 8 Strikehawks incoming...

 

[The Hobbybox]

Ok, yeah, that would a difficult fleet to beat, but the Strikehawks aren't massively powerful.
My usual 5 point Raid fleet for EA would probably survive (3 Chronos, 1 Marathon or Omega, 2 Myrmidons).
I'd be able to beam hit at least one Strikehawk based on the numbers of ships and the Chronos can pump out enough TL fun to at least provide a headache, if not actually take something out.
However, if the Strikehawks were double damage then I'd be a damn sight more worried!

 

[Burger]

That's more than 5 Raid points there

Even a Marathon is going to be quite worried when 24 dice of SAP beam with a redirect and 48 dice of TL is pointing at it... not to mention 8 Sky Serpents

 

[katadder]

stealth 5 didnt help the vaarl against my centauri

as for his force, i was gonna say hes too used to playing 2e, but then thats only a 4pt raid fleet there

 

[Burger]

stealth 5 didnt help the vaarl against my centauri

To be fair that fight was a little unbalanced, my 4 and a half raid points plus a few fighters against your 13!

 

[katadder]

true but the adira did next to nothing. effectively it was 5 raid points of centauri against 5 raid points of drazi. and a few fighters is an understatement although we did have the best dogfight ever with a razik losing to a sky serpant :lol:

 

[Burger]

true but the adira did next to nothing.

Well thats your fault for allowing 2 Strikehawks to lure it behind an asteroid field

 

[Sulfurdown]

I've done well with 8x Strikehawk and 4x Vaarl... of course you can replace the Vaarls for Eyehawks if you want pure Drazi. "Done well" means won one tournament with it, then came 8th out of 12 in the next... so mixed results, no-one can claim it is broken

So could you comfortably squadron those into two groups and/or would you consider replacing two Strikehawks for a Solarhawk and form three squadrons? Keeping in mind that the opponent would be under the same restrictions so unless he/she took a battle level and a lot of skirmish or patrol, he/she is only going to have 2-3 squadrons to move around.(Wouldn't that only be three Vaarl, or can you split more than one point? I don't have my Arma with me.)