Who will win the Fifth Frontier War?

[alex_greene]

So why not send a group of super spies after it? You know, PCs...

Or jump through empty hexes with their entire navy to Rhylanor.

The super McGuffin is a pretty lame excuse for the FFW.

Agreed. It'd have to be something else to force the Zhodani to venture that far out of their comfort zone and into Imperial space.

Let's keep "mountain-sized Ancient alien psionic technology to stop a weird wave of energy expanding throughout the galaxy" and make their expansion more plausible, such as economics (Zhodani economics based on feudal technocracy just don't work, and what's happening to them now will happen to the Imperium in a generation), necessity (Consulate worlds on the Zhodani frontier are collapsing, and they need material resources from Imperial worlds in the Marches) or the ambitions of a single individual Noble who fancies himself as a Zhodani Alexander the Great.

 

[alex_greene]

I hate the whole Empress Wave metaplot. What if it crosses Charted Space, and the worst that happens, due to the Inverse Square Law, is that kids all over the region lose a few nights' sleep, maybe artists create a bunch of disturbing art which becomes known as "The Wave Period Movement" and that's it.

 

[J Harper]

I hate the whole Empress Wave metaplot. What if it crosses Charted Space, and the worst that happens, due to the Inverse Square Law, is that kids all over the region lose a few nights' sleep, maybe artists create a bunch of disturbing art which becomes known as "The Wave Period Movement" and that's it.

Somewhere in the chaos of the Core dead Cthulhu lies dreaming…

 

[alex_greene]

Somewhere in the chaos of the Core dead Cthulhu lies dreaming…

Emphasis on "dead," and failed their Survival roll to boot.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Somewhere in the chaos of the Core dead Cthulhu lies dreaming…

Maybe we can play "let's you and him fight" with Cthulhu and the K'kree.

 

[Condottiere]

Go towards the light!

 

[G'Naakbusters]

Maybe we can play "let's you and him fight" with Cthulhu and the K'kree.

Dread Cthulhu can gropingly squeeze Its gelatinous green immensity wherever it pleases, so long as It isn't eating meat.

 

[Seffix]

Agreed. It'd have to be something else to force the Zhodani to venture that far out of their comfort zone and into Imperial space.

In my campaign, the start of the FFW will be whatever fits with the characters' themes that have been built up when I decide to start it.

I don't expect it to be the need to activate an array of ancient stations hidden in gas giants at 11-parsec intervals, but it might be.
Or it might be a response to a series of Maghiz-level events within Iadr Nsobl.
Or it might be triggered by an offensive by the 40th Squadron pretending to be an invading force with unexpected verisimilitude.
Or it might be an attempt by one of the Dukes or Vice Admirals trying to be cunning, but going too far.
Or something unexpected from Foreven.

I won't know till about a month before it happens -- just enough time to wrangle a bunch of stale plot threads, allies, enemies, and contacts into a plot that makes as much sense as the plot of a 1980s James Bond movie...

 

[alex_greene]

Or a sudden famine in Zhodani space causing an economic chain reaction. A major crop just failed somehow, a natural failure - not Imperial sabotage - but the Zhodani mistakenly believe that the cause of their economy's collapse is by Imperial design.
It might have something to do with the Travellers accidentally leaving behind a Chamax Queen egg on a Zhodani world amongst a pile of garbage they just dumped there.

 

[G'Naakbusters]

It might have something to do with the Travellers accidentally leaving behind a Chamax Queen egg on a Zhodani world amongst a pile of garbage they just dumped there.

 

[paltrysum]

Marc himself said he hated the Wave in the seminar he ran at GenCon.

I agree. It’s an annoying plot point that governs the whole setting’s future. Even if you never get there in your timeline, you know it’s out there.

Apparently he accepts that it exists, though, since his Galaxiad setting is shaped by it.

 

[Sigtrygg]

That's because it was nothing to do with him and for some reason he never asked Frank, Loren or Dave about it.
He therefore doesn't know anything about it apart from what he has been told by the incredibly biased secret squirrel squad, and for some reason despite him stating he is bound by canon he thought it ok to retcon it.

He doesn't know who is responsible for it.
He doesn't know how it was meant to work in-universe.
He doesn't know the in-universe affects.
He was quite happy to retcon it to ftl (because someone and I know who got the dynamics of the wave wrong) despite the fact that he has destroyed the TNE and 1248 settings in doing so.

 

[paltrysum]

Actually he knows all of that. The reason he wasn’t involved is that he was not part of GDW at that time. I believe he had gone into the insurance business for a while and only came back to Traveller after acquiring the license after GDW’s bankruptcy.

As for knowing what it is, he does, obviously. See Agent off the Imperium. If you mean that he doesn’t know what Dave’s initial plans for the Wave were, that’s possible. He would have had to read Dave’s überpost on COTI.

 

[Dalton Calford]

Actually he knows all of that. The reason he wasn’t involved is that he was not part of GDW at that time. I believe he had gone into the insurance business for a while and only came back to Traveller after acquiring the license after GDW’s bankruptcy.

As for knowing what it is, he does, obviously. See Agent off the Imperium. If you mean that he doesn’t know what Dave’s initial plans for the Wave were, that’s possible. He would have had to read Dave’s überpost on COTI.

Is there a link to the uberpost but not on coti?

 

[Sigtrygg]

This is a transcript saved to my google drive.

Ask Dave

Ask Dave Q: How would you have resolved the Empress Wave? We would not have had to “resolve” it for a while, as it would have only gradually intruded into the campaign area, and pretty slowly at that. The answer to “how would you have resolved it” has a few answers. First the point of depart...

docs.google.com

Warning - it is long and is copied from the CotI thread.

Let me know if you can see it.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Actually he knows all of that. The reason he wasn’t involved is that he was not part of GDW at that time. I believe he had gone into the insurance business for a while and only came back to Traveller after acquiring the license after GDW’s bankruptcy.

As for knowing what it is, he does, obviously. See Agent off the Imperium. If you mean that he doesn’t know what Dave’s initial plans for the Wave were, that’s possible. He would have had to read Dave’s überpost on COTI.

I reiterate

he doesn't know what caused it
he doesn't know who or what is responsible for it
and I doubt he has read the thread in question

The wave in Agent is his retcon version based on what others, mostly TNE haters, have told him.

The original was limited to lightspeed, an FTL wave breaks one of Marc's prime directives - no FTL communication.

But that said it is his universe, he can make up what he want for it.

Similarly Mongoose can do what they want with their setting, and I really like the idea of the FFW outcome not being set in a tablet of stone as it opens up a lot more possibilities.

As it stands Mongoose could quit the Third Imperium tomorrow and still have Tinath, DNR, and the Rim expeditions to explore.

I think the future of Traveller is in a really good place now.

 

[Dalton Calford]

I would love mongoose to chart their own path. I want more 1105 adventures. Hell, I would love a 1084 war time adventure with the players ending up in cold sleep, just to wake up in 1104. There are so many potential adventures possible, that mongoose could triple the current amount of traveller material and still not move into 1107.

 

[Vormaerin]

I don't know who knows what about what. I just know that things like the Empress Wave don't have any value to me. I have no idea what I'd do with it to make it something that was fun and interesting for my players. It could be used to trigger disaster movie plots or "omg, people are doing stuff because of it" stuff. But nothing that something a lot less woo-woo and easier to explain/describe wouldn't do better.

I am very heartened by what Matt has said about the framework of how they are proceeding with content, so I agree that Traveller seems to be in a good place.

 

[CordwainerFish]

"What this setting that we've gotten people to buy into over years really needs is Mrs. O'Leary's cow kicking over a lantern" has never sat well with me.

 

[Vormaerin]

As I've said, I don't know any of these people personally and I've only read a small amount of their various writings on forums and whatnot, so I don't know what their decision-making constraints and rationales at the time was like.

But I really don't know why they couldn't just have launched TNE as its own setting like 2300 was its own setting without tying themselves to unwanted elements of the existing setting. But confusing Traveller (the rules) and The Third Imperium (the setting) isn't a recent phenomenon by any means.