Who will win the Fifth Frontier War?

So... The Rebellion without a fractured Imperium?
I honestly hadn't thought that way but you're right, it does seem like Rebellion Light!
I think I was aiming more for something to break the status quo a bit (but not near so drastically as the Rebellion)
I agree with whoever said the last thig they want is to need a Behind The Claw 1110 edition, though.
Maybe an adventure along the lines of "Life Under Zhodani Occupation" as on one the possible FFW outcomes.
Or actually just Life Under Occupation with notes on how different cultures would act as both occupier and occupied
 
Or actually just Life Under Occupation with notes on how different cultures would act as both occupier and occupied
This is a very cool idea! How wold things be different on an Imperial world if it fell to the Zhodani?… or the Sword Worlds?… or Vargr corsairs?… or suffered a revolution due to the Ine Givar?

Likewise, if a Zhodani World fell to the Imperials?…

Great food for thought, cheers!
 
The Darrians are all smoke and mirrors - they are not TLG and the Star Trigger doesn't work...
But doesn’t it? Crazy to base one’s defense on a lie, but hey, gotta keep those expansionist Sword Worlders at bay somehow.
 
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Well, I mean, it *works*. It was quite successful at wrecking their own culture for a while. It just isn't reliable, practical, or really usable in the way people think. :P
 
Mind you, once a group of PCs have gone through the scenario post 1105 it does work :) :) :)

PC scale character actions having an influence on the setting...
 
Maybe an adventure along the lines of "Life Under Zhodani Occupation" as on one the possible FFW outcomes.
Or actually just Life Under Occupation with notes on how different cultures would act as both occupier and occupied
The Zhodani aren't likely to occupy the Marches even if they score a decisive win - they had already stopped expanding before the 3I reached the Marches and it was policy that they had expanded to their optimal size. If that still holds true (and it seems likely from their psychology) they would be more likely to set up some sort of protectorate or client state, or multiples of such. Based on past behavior, they probably wouldn't even object if some of those client states chose to stay loyal to the 3I, so long as the Consulate got some form of stable peace they felt was reliable.

A reduced Imperial Navy presence around their borders would likely make them considerably more confident in a lasting peace, although it would undoubtedly upset many loyalist former Imperial citizens...
 
The Zhodani aren't likely to occupy the Marches even if they score a decisive win
But if there's a super-McGuffin at Rhylanor they need to take and hold that world to see if they can buffer the Wave. Or surf it. Or some such.
 
But if there's a super-McGuffin at Rhylanor they need to take and hold that world to see if they can buffer the Wave. Or surf it. Or some such.
So why not send a group of super spies after it? You know, PCs...

Or jump through empty hexes with their entire navy to Rhylanor.

The super McGuffin is a pretty lame excuse for the FFW.
 
The super-McGuffin cannot be removed from Rhylanor for reasons (integrated with the planetary asthenosphere / dependent on exotic microfauna in the atmosphere / linked to a structure inside the star's corona / will speed up the Wave if it's disturbed / ...).

Even if the super-McGuffin is on Pirema, the Imperium isn't going to take a relaxed wait-and-see approach to the Consulate's setting up camp around a backwater system inside their space.


But this does bring up the point that allowing the GM to select the cause for the FFW to fit their campaign. Perhaps a sidebar/page/chapter looking at potential triggers or objectives and how they would affect strategies of the aggressors.
 
I posted this on another thread. i think it belongs here too.

Norris as a patron and a group of PCs after the warrant would be an excellent scenario for the FFW - shame they never thought of it at GDW.

Fast forward to Agent of the Imperium and all Norris has to do is activate an agent wafer - the agents have full warrant powers.

Which makes me wonder...

pre-1105 did someone order the destruction of the Agent wafers, so Norris went after a derelict capital ship that pre-dated the destruction order. The wafer agents were destroyed, but their authority was never rescinded.
 
I posted this on another thread. i think it belongs here too.

Norris as a patron and a group of PCs after the warrant would be an excellent scenario for the FFW - shame they never thought of it at GDW.

Fast forward to Agent of the Imperium and all Norris has to do is activate an agent wafer - the agents have full warrant powers.

Which makes me wonder...

pre-1105 did someone order the destruction of the Agent wafers, so Norris went after a derelict capital ship that pre-dated the destruction order. The wafer agents were destroyed, but their authority was never rescinded.
I ran that scenario years ago and it was great. The players had to trace the flight path of the ship carrying the warrant. The mini campaign took them across the Aramis and Regina subsections. They fought with militia fighting against the Vargr invaders, did a deep sea dive to retrieve a flight recorder, climb a mountain to get to the crash site. All while staying ahead of Naval Intelligence agents sent by Sector Adm. Santanocheev.
 
I like the idea of the Fifth Frontier War being inconclusive or a pyrrhic victory at best. Maybe the Imperium wins, but the victory leaves its forces in the Marches exhausted. Maybe the victory exposes deep structural flaws in the military and political power structures of the Imperium. Maybe the Zhodani enter a period of greater isolationism after the war as internal power struggles between rival factions break out? The aftermath of the war and its relationship to later canon events has never been deeply explored. Maybe this was the shock the Third Imperium needed to emerge from a long period of complacency. Or maybe it marks the beginning of the end as the final golden age reaches its zenith? THere are many ways to play this that are respectful of canon yet examine the outcome from a different angle. Remember that when the Fifth FRontier War was conceived, the future history of the OTU was unknown. We might see things a little differently with the benefit of hindsight...
 
The wave retcon reason for the FFW should mean the entire Zhodani armed forces are committed to the FFW, not just a few fleets.
It really is a stupid retcon.
 
The wave retcon reason for the FFW should mean the entire Zhodani armed forces are committed to the FFW, not just a few fleets.
It really is a stupid retcon.
While on the whole I’m inclined to agree, it could represent a worrying split in the normally cohesive deduction making processes in the Consulate. If only fleets available to a faction are taking part what does that say about the state of the Consulate and the impact of the knowledge of the wave?

But I suspect I’m thinking like a GM (and what I could do with this) and not like someone who understands the canon fully.

[Edited for typos]
 
So was the wave the actual reason for a portion of the Zhodani armed forces to miss the fun, or was it a convenient excuse for someone to hold back some of the military commitment? This doesn't necessarily reflect a deep split in the decision-making processes of the Consulate. Instead, it might reflect overconfidence or simply poor intelligence information. There are parallels with the Second Punic War in real-world history. Hannibal smashed the Roman legions at Cannae, but the Carthaginian leadership held back reinforcements and supplies. The Carthaginian aristocracy didn't take the threat of Rome seriously enough. This prevented Hannibal from securing a decisive victory. And Fabius Maximus was able to wage a guerilla war against the invading forces, weakening them. Eventually, the Roman forces cut the Carthaginian supply lines from Spain. Could a similar pattern represent the true history behind the Fifth Frontier War? Maybe the Zhodani defeat was due to a combination of overconfidence, complacency, and incompetence at the political level. They ended up with over-extended supply lines deep into Imperial space. Maybe the wave was a retcon by the Zhodani leadership themselves to save face? The war was botched not due to poor performance by the Zhodani forces, but by the reluctance of the leadership to commit sufficient resources to finish the job. The Wave was a real phenomenon, but perhaps the Consulate overplayed its importance after the event to preserve the illusion of unity.
 
The wave is considered an existential threat by the Zhodani - if the solution is to take Rhylanor then they take it with everything they have.
Or use diplomacy, provide the imperium with all the evidence and be allowed access.

But all this is moot.

The Zhodani purpose was to explore coreward for Grandfather. I find it laughable that Grandfather would not know about the wave. It is likely to affect him just as much as any other psion. So Grandfather would assist the Zhodani...
 
I always thought a great way to do the Traveller timeline post-1105 would be a big sourcebook much like Pendragon's The Boy King. You would have a base timeline of events from 1106 to maybe 1140 or 1150, with notes on potential points of important divergence: the Fifth Frontier War, the Rebellion, the Virus, the Wave, etc. If a Referee wanted to play through the original GDW Hard Times events, they could do that. If they wanted to do the GURPS Lorenverse timeline, they could do that. If they wanted to do a version where the Zhodani won the Fifth Frontier War, they could do that.
 
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