Which do you think you will favor...SST:Evo or AT-43

SST: Evo for me.

The only thing I would consider from AT-43 is the sequencing using those cards.
But then again I've been spoiled by rules like Operation World War 2.
You should check it out for initiative and spotting rules. Gives a whole new dynamic to a game.

S
 
wildger said:
I hope you realize how wrong you are. Words came directly from Matt's mouth. I am not too far off on the scale as well. Let's see how the players will accept the new BF models first.

So where you think they could have saved time if they had released SST:Evo first? They still would have had to design heaps of models new, produce them in the factory, rules would be same, playtesting same...It would have taken just as long to release SST:Evo than BF:Evo. Maybe even longer...
 
The key though, is that SST is also easier to paint for in the factory. Being scifi, they can have simpler paint schemes the way AT-43 does, without having to paint authentic looking camouflage schemes.

Also, SST already has an install base that really needs a boost. These new rules and new direction would be a boon, especially so if all the old material was still valid in the game.

I remember one of the reasons why a local player didn't pickup SST after being so interested in the game. He played arachnids and after a quick intro by another player, he could not close his bugs with the enemy. Why? Unlimited reactions somehow providing the MI with ungodly amounts of firepower, even when it wasn't their own turn. In fact, when the bugs got close the MI could shoot more than they could in their own turn. He was so put off by this that he didn't buy the game. The new rules help with this, and with many other aspects that I didn't like, not to mention adding some more tactical depth and fleshing out two more armies besides the MI and Arachnid zulu war.
 
Turtle said:
Also, SST already has an install base that really needs a boost. These new rules and new direction would be a boon, especially so if all the old material was still valid in the game.

And that all old material being valid is going to take up more time. Lot more time. They have "bit" more units to playtest than they needed for initial launch for BF:Evo. Even with 3 waves combined that's what? 4 units per faction...Rest can be playtested as they come...

SST needs LOT more units to playtest. Especially since they probably don't want to piss off their old customers by turning their old models to junk just like that.

He played arachnids and after a quick intro by another player, he could not close his bugs with the enemy.

Yes it can be bit hard to learn to play with bugs but MI is not unbeatable.

and fleshing out two more armies besides the MI and Arachnid zulu war.

Uuuh you do realise there's been 3 armies for a while so all we get is 1 more army?
 
tneva82 said:
And that all old material being valid is going to take up more time. Lot more time. They have "bit" more units to playtest than they needed for initial launch for BF:Evo. Even with 3 waves combined that's what? 4 units per faction...Rest can be playtested as they come...

Na, they should get it right before they launch it. Most old players would be seriously pissed off if they can't use their Brains or Blasters for half a year.

SST needs LOT more units to playtest. Especially since they probably don't want to piss off their old customers by turning their old models to junk just like that.

Well I'm not really afraid here. By now there aren't that many useless models.
In the Arachnid Army Book just the spider bug. And the Overseer, the Tiger Warrior and the Blister need a boost (give the Blister a stream weapon I say).

He played arachnids and after a quick intro by another player, he could not close his bugs with the enemy.
One word: Swarming.
In fact I do not have any problem with loosing bugs. They are expendable. And three Warrior Bug are enough to rip apart a squad of five MI Troopers in one turn.
 
SST needs LOT more units to playtest. Especially since they probably don't want to piss off their old customers by turning their old models to junk just like that.

Actually, we have approximately four FACTIONS to playtest, thankyouverymuch. Any more and we'll be swamped.
 
What you're seeing in these wave releases is just what models they can produce, Mongoose is constantly playtesting new units well in advance of what gets produced, or even slated to get produced since they need to know if a unit is viable and worth a purchase before they think about producing it. Not only that, they'll want to make sure to playtest everything together as soon as possible to show various interactions between the units, designing a unit one by one and then playtesting them one by one leads to unbalanced units, same with overall faction design and playtesting.

Whereas with SST, they already have information about how well units sold and how effective they are on the table. They'd have to adapt that to the new evolution rules, but overall it's about the same amount of work.

I suspect with Evo the first few waves would just be core units being rereleased as prepaints. Only after covering the units that they want to keep in active production would they start making new units.

No, MI are't unbeatable but a victory by the bug player often involves not having anything on the table besides a few scattered bugs, with the rest underground. Sure it's neat to move around little blip markers, but not too satisfying, especially if you have a large number of warriors that you want to swarm.

My comment was mainly intended that the rules, as they stood gave MI too much of an advantage by allowing them to lay down a lot more fire during the enemy turn than they could on their own turn.

And frankly, the skinnies came out well after the initial release, well after any release anticipation had died down. On top of that the skinny army seemed very silly to many people I know. They were too cartoonish, having been based too heavily on the cartoon kids show.

Then they focused too much on making new and different types of MI, instead of making a fourth army.

Then on top of that, probably as they were testing these new armies they realized that the SST rules, as they were, were too geared towards the MI vs Bugs fight, and the more shooty firefights between MI, Skinny and the future Forth weren't as exciting.

On top of that there was the rise of more gamer friendly games, and the decline of the hobby side.

So now we have these new evolution rules, which as I've seen from my playtests of BFE, work quite well for ranged firefights.

I think one of the main reasons why BFE was released first is that SST has been out for a while, those who were going to buy the game should already have most of the miniatures they want.

Makes me think that putting out some kind of alternate history scifi with more emphasis on scifi, or perhaps some kind of fantasy game with the evolution rules may have been a better idea, especially with the problems inherent in making miniatures look like real-life counterparts.
 
tbh theyre two completely different games.

One is high sci-fi and unliscenced, the other is more 'real' sci fi and liscenced.

AT-43 will be better as they have freedom, but SST will be better as it touches a large fanbase, and can easily create one.

I personally like both, but right now, Im more focussed on AT 43 as it's out.

Cant wait for evo, thats more exciting than both put together.

I want RED BLOK!
 
Really gonna depend on who has the better advanced rules to be honest.
I'd prefer a game which has some depth for you to explore, and keeps you thinking about new ways to exploit the rules, whilst also lasting long enough to feel satisfying.

The basic rule preview for evolution we've seen, as well as the drips and drabs the playtesters have let slip about the advanced rules have set alarm bells ringing for me, too much taken out and too much emphasis on 'Kill all the enemy on the board- You win', and added to all that Mongoose has done a complete turn around and decided to drop the army lists from the book (Which kinda flies in the face of convention but that might not be a bad thing). And theres the lack of Andy Chambers this time round, which was one of the MAJOR selling points of V1.

Not that Im saying AT-43 sounds any better at this stage, gonna have to wait and see (Worst comes to worst I've already got an existing set of rules I consider perfect in every way I can continue to play quite happily, its called SST :D )
 
Turtle said:
What you're seeing in these wave releases is just what models they can produce, Mongoose is constantly playtesting new units well in advance of what gets produced,

Yes but do they need them to be FINALISED already?-) I doubt that. They have time to finetune balance.

However they need to have every single SST model with old models playtested and pointed by the time rulebook arrives(maybe even earlier if they put that PDF when SST:Evo launches). So SST is likely "bit" of a more hurry. I know which I would be prioritising first: Playtesting additional units for BF:evo which aren't going to be released for a long time(including rules) or SST:evo units which are going to be released first...

Well maybe it's just silly me to think they would be more of a hurry to finalise playtesting for units that are going to have their stats released first, quite possibly even year+ ahead...
 
MaxSteiner said:
and too much emphasis on 'Kill all the enemy on the board- You win',

Because of the basic scenario in the introductory rules? I assume you know there are scenarios with other objectives in new rulebook?
 
Yes I do, but the BF:E preview didn't exactly dispell my fears when I noticed that the extra mission was 'kill all the enemy'...
And from my understanding, because of the shatter rules you really might as well go for it irrespective of the objective.
 
MaxSteiner said:
Hmmm good point, guess we'll have to wat and see :D

Yup :D

And if nothing else helps creating your own scenarios is not too hard. If nothing else just bring back scenario matrix from SST v1 :D

I won't be giving up on SST:Evo if there's odd thing here or there I don't like. Especially if it's scenarios. I like tinkering with scenarios anyway :lol: (then again...I enjoy tinkering with EVERYTHING, right down to army lists and basic rules...)
 
this is a good point, there is no aim at present within the basic rules, maybe mongoose could in 3rd wave include random mission cards ?

i love the old FOW generic senario, you get 2 objectives each and your enemy or you (cant remeber !!) place them within certain distance sof table edge and each other, the other side doese like wise.

winner of the game is the peron who spends one turn to the next with the same unit over 50% starting stength. and no enemy uniots within x"

they make some very dinamic games as you are forced to go into enemy terretory and also keep some stuff back in defence.

god just realised i aint played FOW in ages now !!!
 
Hmmmmmmmmm

Not sure at moment I'm kinda on the fence, but I will say that, as someone else posted, there are pros and cons for both i.e Rackham have a clean slate to work with whereas Mongoose have an established brand.

I'm in no rush to buy anything new, what with a new baby and all, so am gonna wait and see what the feedback is when Evo becomes available to us lesser beings....
 
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