Which do you think you will favor...SST:Evo or AT-43

asgelb

Mongoose
This is the first time i've been to this site, so i'm a newby. I know this is a Mongoose site, so we may be biased. I love the idea of these new prepainted table top games. They will let someone like me, who loves the game but doesn't have time enough to assemble and paint AND play to actually get into the hobby! Finally! I'm 100% in on Battlefield Evo for a modern/realistic setting.

As for a sci-fi/future setting, would you suggest the soon to be release SST:Evo, or the new AT-43?

-Which system seems to be more promising?
-Which company has a better record?
-Which looks better?
-Which plays better/is more fun?

Any insight would be great! Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
haha well i knew you would say that...i think I would agree. But i still like to see both sides of the coin before the toss! And hopefully, with useful comments, a toss up won't be necessary!
 
SST. Rules are still top quality, models are good and you can paint them yourself. I prefer to painting them for my own colourscheme. Couldn't care less about prepainting as far as my own collection is concerned :lol:
 
Alas, I've already bought into two very large MI and Bug armies. That said, I will probably buy some prepainted exosuits and Forth.
 
SST is definitely the better product by far, both from a miniatures and a rules perspective. Stick w/ SST, you won't be disappointed.
 
-Which system seems to be more promising?
It appears to me that SST seems to be more promising, beacuse to rules are better structured - if you want to move, just move, if you wanna shot just shoot - not as in AT-43 where you can move and shoot good or move faster and shoot not so good and so on.
Also the system bases on rules that have already proven that they work well and allow complex scenarios. AT-43 seems a bit to reductionistic to me and by now units don't even have point values, so you are stuck with the scenarios delivered by rakham.

-Which company has a better record?
Can't answer that, as I'm not that in with rakham but things like that:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=334713#334713
give MPG a little advantage in my sympathy.

-Which looks better?
Depends on what style you like. AT-43 has very comic-looking style which is popular in France. Units often do not look logical but style over substance (*thinks about the "sniper me!" Overseer girl*).
SST relies on a far more realistically looking style. Bugs look like Insects should and MI looks like ultra-modern warfare soldiers.

-Which plays better/is more fun?
Don't have played AT-43 by now, but the rules confused me far more than those of SST (Evo). The SST rules are far more easier to understand and - in my eyes - also far more versatile. They often go simpler ways to produce gameplay effects (why make a difference between moving and moving fast, if you can simply give all untis two actions and if they want let them move twice).
Also the thing with that ingame-command points in AT-43 (you can by special actions and other effects from them) confused a while, till I got it right.

Also the Armies in SST appear far more versatile to me.
You can field 5 Types of MI Platoons (and even mix them) and even with bugs you can field i.e. a crawling army (tons of Warrior Bugs), a fast attack swarm (mainly Firefries and Ripplers) or an artillery corps (3 Plasmas in 2000p) - and all of them are competitive in games.

But it appears to me once you have an AT-43 army you are very fixed in your playing style (I may be wrong here but looking at Confrontation I doubt it). If you want a new playing style you have to buy another army, not just expand your existing one.

Oh, and on a note I love those heroic trates. It's a brilliant way to unify your Leaders (LT, NCOs, Seargents and so on).
And the best - it's really fluffy.
Traits like "Jumpball player", "Medic", "Daredevil" or "Stay frosty" give them a feeling of personality I haven't seen in any other tabletop.
 
im on the wall here

the thing with AT-43 is that its a mass combat game ! i mean mass, the intro box doese not do the game any favours as its designed to play with hundreds of figs, no kidding once you up the game you serously dee how good it is, while sst slows down at game scale increase AT-43 speeds up.

also the points arnt on the cards for AT-43 as they made a decision the cards are to be game aids, and points wull be listed in books, so in the future if they see a game creep and certain units become overvalued or undervalued this can simply be remedied by printing one bok rather than trying to tell every player to alter the card..

Not a great deal can be said about AT-43 at the moment though till the full rule book comes out, little rules are hinted at in the starter kit, but not exsplained as their of no use in the missions so are ommited.

sst has its good points and its bad points, like all game systems, but id definatly put both sst and AT-43 over 40k any day, for game mechanics and freedom of tactics.
 
Both :)
Two different games, both with pros and cons. And as both are pre-painted there's no time investment needed to get an army. (Which has always been my limiting factor).
 
My suggestion is to stay with what other people are playing in your FLGS. In mine, no one plays SST while there is an very active sentinel for AT-43. So, the choice is obivous to me.
 
Yes, follow the herd.
It's the attitude that got GW where it is today :)

I say play both and pick the one you like best. No point playing something just because everyone else is, is there? Shops not stocking the game you want?
Ask them to, if not, order online. SST-Evo and AT-43 are going to open the floodgates for prepainted non-collectable games, which is great for gamers, but, as with Clix etc.... there will be too many for any shop to stock them all. Stores need to make a choice, they don't stock everything, online ordering of the others grows and shops lose out. It's the way things are going, games shops are getting increasingly like book shops, stocking best sellers and not having room for the limited interest stuff. Otherwise they cling on as long as possible stocking a wide range then close. I used to have three independant stores near me, none now.
And prepaints will attract gamers who don't want to paint, which is great (and allows me to play games quickly and concentrate on quality paint jobs for characters). But I can also see these games being sold in Toys-r-us etc.. what does that do to gaming stores? (Same thing ASDA selling books did to independant book shops).
 
one of my friends used to just buy prepainted figs for wargaming, this new thing now means its more affordable to collect more game systems.

wich for me is great as we can now get him to play more games we hope :D
 
I will go with mongoose on all of them,
to me AT43 seems like a 40k knockoff,(i must say tho that i don't know too much about it) and mongoose has yet to truly disappoint me, the deal with the not yet released air-assets is being countered there by the fact that i can still afford to eat..;)
The Exosuits are freakishly amazing
and i actually like the retrofeel of the skinnies!!!

The MI are too many parts tho and it'll be a blessing to get them preassembled:)
 
To address your questions directly:

-Which system seems to be more promising?
--> SST:Evo: I own the AT-43 box and it is far to easy. The rules do not even give you a chance to save your troops accept by keeping them out of sight, which will greatly carry over to the full rules set. Also, there are only two types of units: Walkers and infantry with most benefits going towads walkers while infantry will be only meat bags with single use weapons. Even the Therian Walker from the initiation set can kill half a squad with its weapons.

-Which company has a better record?
--> Rackham is very good concerning tin miniatures. I love their range of Confrontation Fantasy minis but have to say that their recent minis begin to disappoint me. They get even more frail than before and it is difficult do glue them together and a horror to transport them correctly.
For the minis of the box set, I don't like them much. The paint job is as bad as Mage Knight minis and they are not made of hard plastic but rather soft one.
Rachham greatest problem are their rules. They have a certain style which is quite confusing. Confrontation evolved from 1.0 to 3.5 by now and the rules are now for the first time in many years really playable. Before that, absolute mass was the only way to win and as it presently looks like, AT-43 will continue this. Better wait for the AT-44 or 45 incarnation in some years.

-Which looks better?
--> Although the RH minis have better concepts, their miniature counterparts are in no way the same quality and the paint job is bad. It is roumored that this shall improve with the next production run, but I really doubt it. About SST:Evo, I can't say much. But if the Cap troopers and light infantry are good resculped and the paint job is good, they will look better than AT-43.

-Which plays better/is more fun?
--> Easy answer: SST:Evo. ST-43 is for me a sci-fi spin off of GWs Lord of the Rings, easy and dumb. The winner of the initiative/leadership will most often activate his most powerfull unite first and the atomize his enemies chances of defeating him by simply taking him the tools to do so. No reaction, no armor save. Only walkers will have damage allocation in more detail.

So what should I say, I thought AT-43 to be promising. When I first saw the minis and the expected paint job I really liked it. From what I got from the initiation set, I now don't like it anymore and am not getting into it!

I know several Sentinels for Rackham which were, let me say "ordered" to run AT demos. And then I also met a Sentinel from the other front which was over enthusiastic about AT being the best game of the world and that no other company can never match RHs quality and how bad BF:Evo would look. Eventually, he never saw the minis but slipped his tounge when I enquired where he had seen them.

Imo RH is desperate to get AT into the market with a competitor at their heels, which they know has a better rules set. Also, when AT is a real mass system as said before in this threat, than it is rediclously overpriced. 6 Infantry for 25€ from which I need over 100? No thanks...
 
I quite like that as it means the minis are easy to take apart, clean up and repaint.
But, that's just a lucky consequence of them being rather lightly glued... it's and advantage to me, but hardly a great example of pre-assembly.
I still like them, won't comment on the full rules system until I've actually seen it (the intro game being very lean), so comparing the two games isn't very realistic right now.
I'm behind mongoose purely and simply because they are mongoose, GOMC-1 is (was) great and so is SST. A free magazine that's worth reading and a forum that permits criticism/discussion of other companies. That what gives me confidence in mongoose.
 
Well, before the soldier came off his base, it participated in a battle featuring all the models from the boxed set. Lets say skin of my teeth on this....after the therian player lost his Wraith, it was Toads up all the way.
 
heheehe
yeah thats the trouble with killing the wraith it realy screws the bad guys over as its their army center, in effect the wraith is the army and the troops act as support, while the for the the steel troopers the men are the army and the toad is support..

what i realy like is the unit leader is nothing special hes a referance point for the unit, and as members get killed the referance point changes.

the wraith is what makes the troopers powerful, and the little game mat you play your first few games on doese not do any of the game justice, play it on a 6x4 table and both start in oposit corners with a table full of terrain and suddenly it shines, i do wish that troopers staying motionless get a reroll to hit for aiming or somthing but that may apear in the fulll rules, and thats the big problem with the game we can see a few holes in it, and we know there is a full rule book for it in a few months time, and thats agonising knowing we may be either exsperincing the rims of a great game or possable limits of a unfleshed game !!!!!!

i like AT-43 and i can see me adding my own mods to it, but im holding back in hope that the main rule book will adress any of the bits that seem to be missing.

as it stands its a demo version of a game, and not a full game yet, when sst was first released all we had was warriors and plastic troopers and evan then i remember complaints about lack of variety, and i think this suffers from the same problem at the moment, you realy need 3 box sets to make a good game !!!! with one of the wraiths dropped to make points equalish.

also anybody playing this with no web access is at a disadvantage as they wont be able to access the new mission dowloads, but then thats also a problem SST evo and BF evo may have, as now harbinger has gone electronic as well, i realy miss a games mag from the shops thats relivent to my hobby :(

as for the mini comming of its base, thats pretty good going as it means your playing the game and trying it, wich to be honest is more than what ive ever done with a single heroclix mini, bar convert them for other game systems. i evan gave up on the starwars game befor rolling a single dice !!!! but AT-43 doese have tactics, and is very reliant on staying at range and in cover and attempting lightning attacks and withdraws, and can feel like chess some times trying to eliminate the unit you think your oponent plans on using next so you get another go uninterupted, when you get it right its great (although not for your oponent) also my kids can pick up the minis and i dont have to leap and save them befor they get trashed with a spoon or someother objct the kid has in tuther hand lol.

the minis are constructed so they can be pulled part with minimal damage, with the thought you should still look after your minis evan if there plastic and prepainted !!! although to be honest im looking at mine now from a game last week and there all bunched up in a ball !!!! hehehehehe.... so not good one to talk about lookin after your minis.

i can see me doing both evo and at-43 at the moment, but bf evo on a smaller scale. i think the rules are still a bit awkward for bf-evo and i can see game scale creep causing a few problems that could have been rectified, i think some of the finer points of sst rules have been lost for evo, and some of the best bits overcomplicated or underplayed. but then no game system is perfect as trying to ballance something simplisticly unbalances other things all the time.

variety is the spice of life, so il pobably play them all to an extent.
 
I do wish that Mongoose would put out SST-EVO first rather then BF. After all, the basic ground work and player base are there and you have a good set of rules. The company should not have problems releasing SST-EVO before AT-43. It makes a difference from the marketing point of view before not that many people can affort to have two game systems. Instead, Mongoose goes with BF-EVO first with a wrong scale of 25/28 mm. Given the prices of the BF figures, SST-EVO will not be far off. I will definitely give some thoughts into SST-EVO if there is a good deal for a new starter set with pre-painted figures inside.

Regarding AT-43, this game should be released in the Q2 of this year with the advanced rule, 3 or 4 factions and a whole range of figures. The fourth faction is actually very interesting. Anyone remember the Battle for the Planet of the Apes? Apparently, it is still at the rudimentary stage.

Rackham desperately tries to get the game out before X'mas with changes up to the last minutes. The original intended 24 figures in the box is down to 19. Instead of having 7 cards and 2 universal tables, you get 8/1. The mulit-lingual booklet is totally unnecessary. Since everything is made and assembled in China, I guess that it saves them time for not putting in a booklet with the corresponding language to the appropriate country afterward.

The initiation rules are very simple. It is good if you only wants a short and fast game and especially for those who never have any experience in minature gaming. It is hard to predict how the game will evolve since Rackham is still changing it. So far, everything is relied on missions on a map. It is a disappointment because I am hoping for an army list to construct. I am sure that it will change but when?

There is a lot of talk about the painting quality. If you like to make a negative comment, please explain. Otherwise, it can easily misinterpreted as bashing. My wife hates the AT-43 figures and cannot understand why I gave up my well painted miniatures to play those. To her, the color scheme looks too plain and blank. All UNA looks grey and the therian are dark and that is it. At a closer examination, there are some highlights on my wraith but the work is poorly done. You can actually see and count the strokes. It would be better if they skipped it. Overall, the painting scheme is still aceptable to me and most important of all, it save time.
 
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