David Anla Shok'
Mongoose
Marco Raimeous said:
Don't worry. The Force was not with him. ;>
what good are vorlon transports?
- Thread starter Marco Raimeous
- Start date
Don't worry. The Force was not with him. ;>
NearlyMarco Raimeous said:
Just because you have a 5/9 chance of getting at least one crit, doesn't mean you will get 5/9 crits on average. The average is the total number of crits multiplied by their likelihood and is 6/9 (4/9 you get one crit plus 1/9 you get two crits). Multiply this by the average Damage caused and you get the Damage caused by crits on an average attack.
Marco Raimeous
Mongoose
@ triggy
yeah that is true so it is a 66.6 percent chance, so 66.6% of 2.27 is 1.513 making the average/mean damage of the transport 5.513. done.
this was fun, lets do this to some other ship (destroyer)
6 beam AD = 6 damage xDD = 12
of those 6 you have (6 to the power 6) 46656 possible dice roles, how many are crits....never mind
:wink:
yeah that is true so it is a 66.6 percent chance, so 66.6% of 2.27 is 1.513 making the average/mean damage of the transport 5.513. done.
this was fun, lets do this to some other ship (destroyer)
6 beam AD = 6 damage xDD = 12
of those 6 you have (6 to the power 6) 46656 possible dice roles, how many are crits....never mind
:wink:
Actually, on average each critical does slightly more than that.
Whilst probability is only ever a guide (especially where beams are concerned!) the rules are as follows:
Hits
Regular AD: (7-x)/6 chance of a hit per AD where x is target's hull.
AP/SAP/Weak weapon: As above but with modified hull value.
Twin-linked: As above but with 35/36 for 'effective' hull 2, 8/9 for hull 3, 3/4 for hull 4, 5/9 for hull 5 and 11/36 for hull 6.
Mini-Beam: 1/2 a hit per AD
Beam: diminishing series - chance of x hits is the chance of getting one hit less times by 1/2, so the series goes 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16. A chain of 1/2+1/4+1/8+1/16 adds up to 1 to sufficient accuracy if you go on long enough (have a try on a spreadsheet if you don't believe me), so a beam should average out at one hit per AD.
Damage Type:
Energy Mine: 1/6 hits are Bulkhead, 5/6 hits are Solid
Non-Precise: 1/6 hits are Bulkhead, 2/3 hits are Solid, 1/6 hits are Critical
Precise: 2/3 hits are Solid, 1/3 hits are Critical
Damage:
Bulkhead: Single damage gives no damage. Double or triple gives one, quad gives two.
Solid: Pretty obvious - one damage times the damage multiplier.
Critical:
There are 36 combinations of equal likelihood assuming unbiased dice for the critical 'type' and critical 'severity' rolls - although some of them are the same (critical 'type' rolls of a 1 and a 2 are identical, for example).
Assuming you take one of each possible roll, as well as suffering more system dropouts than you can shake a pointy stick at, you take an additional 59.5 damage and lose 73.5 crew - criticals are slightly more benevolent to regular damage than to crew score because of (a) critical table '4' and (b) the 'exploding console' syndrome which invariably accompanies systems failure in science fiction shows.
Averaged out over those 36 hits, that makes 1.7 damage (to two decimal places) and 2.0 crew loss.
In additon to this each critical does the normal 1 damage and crew loss of a solid hit, for a total of 2.7 damage and 3 crew loss per single damage critical, times any damage multiplier.
Obviously you also need to factor in stealth, dodge, GEG, etc at appropriate points.
So the Transport firing on a Sho'Kos:
Discharge Gun
2 AD fire
2 Hits (beam)
Sho'kos evades 1/3 of the fire with dodge 5+ (about the only means of defence that works here!) leaving 1.3333 hits
1.3333 hits translates to 0.8889 Solid hits and 0.4444 Criticals due to precise.
Double Damage means that each solid hit does 2 damage/2 crew and each critical does 5.3 damage and 6 crew.
Total= 4.2 damage, 4.4 crew
And the Sho'Kos firing back:
Burst Beam
1 AD fires
1 hit (beam)
1/6 bulkhead hits, 2/3 solid hits, 1/6 critical hits.
bulkhead hit does no damage, solid hits do 1 damage, criticals do 2.7 damage. No crew score to attack.
Average of 1.1 damage. In real terms Adaptive Armour drops this to 1 - if it's ever enough to round up to 2 then it's dropped straight back to 1.
Medium Pulse Cannon
2 AD fire
2/3 of a hit due to hull 5
0.111 bulkhead hits, 0.444 solid hits, 0.111 critical hits.
bulkhead hit does no damage, solid hits do 1 damage, criticals do 2.7 damage. No crew score to attack.
Average of 0.74 damage - not enough for Adaptive Armour to affect.
Light Pulse Cannon
4 AD fire
4/6=2/3 of a hit due to 'effective' hull 6 (weak weapon)
0.111 bulkhead hits, 0.444 solid hits, 0.111 critical hits.
bulkhead hit does no damage, solid hits do 1 damage, criticals do 2.7 damage. No crew score to attack.
Average of 0.74 damage - not enough for Adaptive Armour to affect.
Total of 1+0.74+0.74 = ~2.5 damage per shooting phase.
Transport will self-repair 1 damage per turn after all opponents have a chance to fire.
Whilst probability is only ever a guide (especially where beams are concerned!) the rules are as follows:
Hits
Regular AD: (7-x)/6 chance of a hit per AD where x is target's hull.
AP/SAP/Weak weapon: As above but with modified hull value.
Twin-linked: As above but with 35/36 for 'effective' hull 2, 8/9 for hull 3, 3/4 for hull 4, 5/9 for hull 5 and 11/36 for hull 6.
Mini-Beam: 1/2 a hit per AD
Beam: diminishing series - chance of x hits is the chance of getting one hit less times by 1/2, so the series goes 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16. A chain of 1/2+1/4+1/8+1/16 adds up to 1 to sufficient accuracy if you go on long enough (have a try on a spreadsheet if you don't believe me), so a beam should average out at one hit per AD.
Damage Type:
Energy Mine: 1/6 hits are Bulkhead, 5/6 hits are Solid
Non-Precise: 1/6 hits are Bulkhead, 2/3 hits are Solid, 1/6 hits are Critical
Precise: 2/3 hits are Solid, 1/3 hits are Critical
Damage:
Bulkhead: Single damage gives no damage. Double or triple gives one, quad gives two.
Solid: Pretty obvious - one damage times the damage multiplier.
Critical:
There are 36 combinations of equal likelihood assuming unbiased dice for the critical 'type' and critical 'severity' rolls - although some of them are the same (critical 'type' rolls of a 1 and a 2 are identical, for example).
Assuming you take one of each possible roll, as well as suffering more system dropouts than you can shake a pointy stick at, you take an additional 59.5 damage and lose 73.5 crew - criticals are slightly more benevolent to regular damage than to crew score because of (a) critical table '4' and (b) the 'exploding console' syndrome which invariably accompanies systems failure in science fiction shows.
Averaged out over those 36 hits, that makes 1.7 damage (to two decimal places) and 2.0 crew loss.
In additon to this each critical does the normal 1 damage and crew loss of a solid hit, for a total of 2.7 damage and 3 crew loss per single damage critical, times any damage multiplier.
Obviously you also need to factor in stealth, dodge, GEG, etc at appropriate points.
So the Transport firing on a Sho'Kos:
Discharge Gun
2 AD fire
2 Hits (beam)
Sho'kos evades 1/3 of the fire with dodge 5+ (about the only means of defence that works here!) leaving 1.3333 hits
1.3333 hits translates to 0.8889 Solid hits and 0.4444 Criticals due to precise.
Double Damage means that each solid hit does 2 damage/2 crew and each critical does 5.3 damage and 6 crew.
Total= 4.2 damage, 4.4 crew
And the Sho'Kos firing back:
Burst Beam
1 AD fires
1 hit (beam)
1/6 bulkhead hits, 2/3 solid hits, 1/6 critical hits.
bulkhead hit does no damage, solid hits do 1 damage, criticals do 2.7 damage. No crew score to attack.
Average of 1.1 damage. In real terms Adaptive Armour drops this to 1 - if it's ever enough to round up to 2 then it's dropped straight back to 1.
Medium Pulse Cannon
2 AD fire
2/3 of a hit due to hull 5
0.111 bulkhead hits, 0.444 solid hits, 0.111 critical hits.
bulkhead hit does no damage, solid hits do 1 damage, criticals do 2.7 damage. No crew score to attack.
Average of 0.74 damage - not enough for Adaptive Armour to affect.
Light Pulse Cannon
4 AD fire
4/6=2/3 of a hit due to 'effective' hull 6 (weak weapon)
0.111 bulkhead hits, 0.444 solid hits, 0.111 critical hits.
bulkhead hit does no damage, solid hits do 1 damage, criticals do 2.7 damage. No crew score to attack.
Average of 0.74 damage - not enough for Adaptive Armour to affect.
Total of 1+0.74+0.74 = ~2.5 damage per shooting phase.
Transport will self-repair 1 damage per turn after all opponents have a chance to fire.
Coming in late to this discussion, but (as Garibaldi has already said), I've had great luck with the Transport.
I use Destroyers, but I've found that the chance of once critical hit either pulling the Destroyer out of the game offensively for two rounds, or even worse, causing it to lose adaptive armor, is simply too great. By putting my points into Transports, I actually get more total hit points, more beam dice, and better protection from critical hits.
On a side note, has anyone else found that the "wait one full turn before repairing critical hits" is REALLY harsh on the Vorlons? There are four Critical Hit results that have the potential to take away Adaptive Armor and three that will totally shut down a Vorlon's offensive capability. Either way, that ship can be written off.
I use Destroyers, but I've found that the chance of once critical hit either pulling the Destroyer out of the game offensively for two rounds, or even worse, causing it to lose adaptive armor, is simply too great. By putting my points into Transports, I actually get more total hit points, more beam dice, and better protection from critical hits.
On a side note, has anyone else found that the "wait one full turn before repairing critical hits" is REALLY harsh on the Vorlons? There are four Critical Hit results that have the potential to take away Adaptive Armor and three that will totally shut down a Vorlon's offensive capability. Either way, that ship can be written off.
Marco Raimeous
Mongoose
Sho Kos damage ~2.5 x 4 because you get four per 1 transport. (2.5 x 4 = 10 damage) ouch and that is after AA.
Thanks for the break down, I forgot about the Sho Kos dodge. Crazy good little buggers. :roll:
Thanks for the break down, I forgot about the Sho Kos dodge. Crazy good little buggers. :roll:
Yup - again, it has one of the perfect active defences to protect it from beam fire...
You think the Sho'Kos is bad, try facing a swarm of Tethys laser boats.
Take them against a battle-level ship and whilst you'll lose oodles of them to enemy fire, you just don't care; you get 16 of the little snots, they have an interceptor, and a 2 AD, double damage beam each!
B5freak said:
I always thought it more thematically appropriate that Shadows and Vorlons be unaffected by criticals. The Ancients probably shouldn't suffer criticals either. I mean... pfft, whoever heard of an Ancient ship actually having something looking even close to a guidance system?
So yes, it's harsh.
just as bad on the Shadows they don't like losing shields or self repair or their one gun either
alhtough a good beam crit often means you are pinned so that may be least of your problems......... :shock:
The Shadow / Vorlon ships are quasi living beings so are likely to have vulnerable points (as Cartman says - Kick 'em in the nuts) - feel shock of major injuries etc - I have no problem with it effecting either.
alhtough a good beam crit often means you are pinned so that may be least of your problems......... :shock:
The Shadow / Vorlon ships are quasi living beings so are likely to have vulnerable points (as Cartman says - Kick 'em in the nuts) - feel shock of major injuries etc - I have no problem with it effecting either.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
I would have liked to see a different critical table with appropriate descriptions, similar effects to the existing one and maybe a variable difficulty to heal.
da boss wrote:
Yes, but the Shadow's Shields "shield" them from quite a lot of critical hits whereas Vorlons have the chance of suffering a Crit from every hit they take. Given my druthers (I just love that word), I'd like to see the Vorlons be able to repair all non-movement critical effects in the same turn that they're suffered. I also think it's absurd for a living ship to have to take a CQ check to come about, but that's a story for another time.
Yes, but the Shadow's Shields "shield" them from quite a lot of critical hits whereas Vorlons have the chance of suffering a Crit from every hit they take. Given my druthers (I just love that word), I'd like to see the Vorlons be able to repair all non-movement critical effects in the same turn that they're suffered. I also think it's absurd for a living ship to have to take a CQ check to come about, but that's a story for another time.
Marco Raimeous
Mongoose
speaking of patrol boats that are awesome
Xaar patrol boat.
WOW
anyways...
ah yes, vorlon crits are deadly especially when you knock off that armour which basically makes its damage a priority lower. For instance, destroyer gets AA knocked off, suddenly it has the hull of a raid ship (35)
Xaar patrol boat.
WOW
anyways...
ah yes, vorlon crits are deadly especially when you knock off that armour which basically makes its damage a priority lower. For instance, destroyer gets AA knocked off, suddenly it has the hull of a raid ship (35)
