what good are vorlon transports?

[Triggy]

Well said Locarno, good stats backing up a cogent arguament and even explaining why Vorlon Transports work best at Skirmish and Raid PL games against EA, Centauri, Minbari, Narn, etc. (at higher PLs they start to be not quite so good again as ships can kill them before they get the benefit of Self-Repair).

At lower PLs use the Vorlon Fighters and at higher PLs use a few Transports as initiative sinks but otherwise start to trade up for the Destroyers and Cruisers.

 

[David Anla Shok']

A raid level frigate would fill in the Vorlon inventory quite nicely.

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

A raid level frigate would fill in the Vorlon inventory quite nicely.

You mean the one that got cancelled? T_T

 

[David Anla Shok']

A raid level frigate would fill in the Vorlon inventory quite nicely.

You mean the one that got cancelled? T_T

Any one, actually.

 

[Da Boss]

A raid level frigate would fill in the Vorlon inventory quite nicely.

As long as the Shadows get a skirmish ship to balance things as per agreement betwen them :wink:

 

[David Anla Shok']

A raid level frigate would fill in the Vorlon inventory quite nicely.

As long as the Shadows get a skirmish ship to balance things as per agreement betwen them :wink:

Agreed. Perhaps not Vorlon/Shadow crewed vessels but ones crewed by "lesser", subservient races?

 

[Da Boss]

I did read somewhere that some Shadow Scouts were crewed by Drakh............ :? Do the Vorlons have servitor races? (apart from the Minbari :wink: )

 

[David Anla Shok']

I did read somewhere that some Shadow Scouts were crewed by Drakh............ :? Do the Vorlons have servitor races? (apart from the Minbari :wink: )

Nothing that I've seen would indicate that, though I wouldn't discount the possibility. Servitor race crewed vessels (say that fast!) would get fewer of the racial benefits and would give us some lower level ships to use.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

@ locarno24

good points however I would like to know how you get the 6.27 damage average out of 2 AD. (75% you get at least one hit on first role, 50% second) Not trying to argue, just would like to know where you got that number.

This is the most important one, really - the patrol cutter is precisely what the transport is not designed to fight (multiple swarmy light ships) whilst the transport is about the only style of ship the Sho'Kos can be said to be well suited to fighting - a medium armoured target with big blind spots in its weapons.

what I am saying is that most races have mutiple patrol level ships and mutiple types of fighters so when you are playing a skirmish or patrol game, the transports will most likely be swarmed. Vorlon fighters can be out fightered and as shown the vorlon transport can't dish enough, and 1 damage hits poke holes through that AA.

Why would they make a military unit less capable than a runaround shuttle? And note that the same argument that applied to the Shadows applies to the Vorlons - they don't care about adapting to the younger races.

Because a transport just transports and it is not good at gathering intel on where enemy fleets are. You can't transfer their scouting "putting a piece of themselves in other races" ability in a fleet game so how else to show they have intel on the enemy but through an unmanned scout. I am not saying vorlons should adapt to other races however they make living ships that do not require a vorlon. You are absolutely right that vorlons would not waste one of there own on a menal task like scouting, so let there living ship do it by itself.

The rest of what you said I mostly agree with.

 

[captainsmirk]

I did read somewhere that some Shadow Scouts were crewed by Drakh............ :? Do the Vorlons have servitor races? (apart from the Minbari :wink: )

Nothing that I've seen would indicate that, though I wouldn't discount the possibility. Servitor race crewed vessels (say that fast!) would get fewer of the racial benefits and would give us some lower level ships to use.

Whilst its not stated explicitly there are at least two examples of Vorlon "servitors" (oddly both human...): Lyta and the Inquisitor, not servitor races as such but the Vorlons do seem to nab individuals from the younger races to carry out their dirty work (and with a living ship you would hardly need a large crew).

 

[Triggy]

@ locarno24

good points however I would like to know how you get the 6.27 damage average out of 2 AD. (75% you get at least one hit on first role, 50% second) Not trying to argue, just would like to know where you got that number.

I'll field this one:

Each AD generates on average exactly one hit.

Precise gives you 1/3 of a critical per hit.

Each critical does an additional 1.135 Damage on average (total up the possible results and multiply them by their likelihood), or near enough anyway.

Double Damage doubles the number of Damage inflicted (none lost to bulkheads due to Precise).

This is how you get 6.27 Damage inflicted per Vorlon Transport shot!

 

[Ripple]

A few comments on the nature of the transport.

This is not a 'shuttle', this is an interstellar diplomatic transport. That's like saying a cruise liner is a dinghy, they do the same job, move people, but they have radically different profiles. If it is truly a 'civilian' ship it wouldn't have weapons at all. Look at what has happened even in modern times with piracy and civilians trying to arm themselves... almost always disaster for the civilian, and objection by governments to private military hardware not under contract to them.

And while we have differentiated the destroyer and the transport for game purposes, we don't see any difference in the series. It's a hull type that the vorlons at least think is battle worthy, and a good choice to 'show the flag'.

The point was that you could definitely have other variants of the transport. There is no reason we couldn't have a infiltration/abductor ship. Give it a lower hull, and maybe trade AA for stealth. It wouldn't have all the 'vorlon fixin's' but it would serve a role that to some degree we know was played. It would be the ship used to snatch up Jack.

So you could end up with a Patrol level ship, hull 4, 8 to 12 damage, 2 AD beam precise range 10 to 12, stealth 5+, atmospheric. The point here is a standard Vorlon ship may have a set package (hull 5, AA, beam precise) but that doesn't mean every ship they produce would be the same. They would have different tools for different jobs, you don't do surgery with a wrench, no matter how advanced the wrench.

You could do a 'fighter tender' or baby sitter ship... give it the unique trait so you don't see more than one a game. No in show basis, but as sensible as most, give a just carrier and some defenses so it could carry fighters inside closer to the fight before deployment.

It's all slightly off off topic... the transport serves a role and can be devastating. No individual transport is terribly reliable, but taken as a group you can manage some reliable damage and more importantly crit expectation.

Ripple

 

[Marco Raimeous]

@ ripple

completely agree 100%

@ Triggy

Thanks, I accually did the calculations and you have a 5/9 chance you get at least one crit, 4/9 you get no crits and a 1/9 chance you get two crits.

I guess 5/9 chance is a little better than 50/50 so I would put the damage down to 5.135 - 5.5 (4 + 1.135ish ) because you only have a 55.56 change of getting one so half the damage to get the average.

sound legit?

 

[eldiablito]

So, the next question that this discussion seems to be begged is the fighter versus the transport.

It strikes me that even though the fighter is VERY fragile and only has a precise beam, why wouldn't people fly 6 stands of fighters (2 patrol choices) instead of a transport (one skirmish choice)?

 

[skavendan]

So, the next question that this discussion seems to be begged is the fighter versus the transport.

It strikes me that even though the fighter is VERY fragile and only has a precise beam, why wouldn't people fly 6 stands of fighters (2 patrol choices) instead of a transport (one skirmish choice)?

because some races have accurate weapons negating dodge completled when you do that they wont last long.

 

[David Anla Shok']

So, the next question that this discussion seems to be begged is the fighter versus the transport.

It strikes me that even though the fighter is VERY fragile and only has a precise beam, why wouldn't people fly 6 stands of fighters (2 patrol choices) instead of a transport (one skirmish choice)?

Ummmm, we do.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Let's not over stress the "vulnerability" of the Vorlon fighter. While it has a dogfight of "0" it also has anti fighter, so it gets a decent first shot in. It's primary weapon, while only 1 die, is a beam, so beam dice madness is also a possibility. You use them as ship killers and dogfight when you must. I prefer them to Shadow fighters.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

when I first started playing vorlons I hardly ever played with fighters though I am not sure why. Upon further examination these fighters are excellent in groups.

for instance, 6 flights of fighters (sk. pt.) has 6 Adv. anti fighter meaning that before fighters even try to dogfight, they lose some and hopefully enough so that you can double up to get the pluses to dogfight.

Also usually the ships with accurate weapons don't have a great range (eg. Shadow Scout, Blue star etc...) so therefore since fighters move after ships, they can move out of those arcs.


6 AD of Pr. beam is better than 2 DD,Pr,beam, and 3" range means they stay outside of antifighter.

the only problems I have encountered is energy mines (ouch) and ships with a ton of average/poor AD coming out of every arc. I went up against an Abbai fleet, (4 point battle) I had 3 destroyers, 2 transports, and 12 fighters, he had 2 lakara's, 3 milani carriers, and 10 shyarie's I think. I jumped my fighters in a turn too soon and they all evaporated that turn. Those Shyarie's are crazy good for a patrol.

I digress, Vorlon fighters are awesome when used in large groups, (better than their cost in transports in my opinion) just be careful of those energy mines.

 

[skavendan]

I digress, Vorlon fighters are awesome when used in large groups, (better than their cost in transports in my opinion) just be careful of those energy mines.

Who do you disagree with?

I never said they where rubbish. Infact this entire topic is pointless.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

no "I digress" I got off topic, sorry for the misconception.