what good are vorlon transports?

like the title says, do vorlon transports have a use. 2 AD of beam means you have a very high chance of not hitting at all. And that being the only weapon if you miss there goes a skirmish worth of fire. Why not make it SD instead of DD and give 3 or 4 AD rather than two. I know of patrol level ships with far more AD, I digress.

Have found you a use for transport in its current state? (and not to bait bigger ships)
 
I'm not sure how 25% counts as "very high", but you have just as high a chance of doing a lot of double damage precise destruction (for a skirmish ship at least). This is especially true for against high hulled ships due to the nature of beams.
 
They are good skirmish ships

Weapons yes its only 2 dice (same as White star by the way) with a good range and its both double damage and precise. The beam is unrelaible but that works both ways hit or miss big..............if you don't like it thats a problem with beam mehcanics and the Vorlons is not a good choice fo fleets! Its not much AD but its a powerful weapon - you ignore armour and interceptors and precise means those crits are more common and effects are doubled.

Speed - 10 with a 90 degree turn is OK

Durable - efectively 24 damage with adaptive armour - regen, repairs crits after a turn, has advanced antifighter.

Its skirmish so its cheap enough to be used as an In sink to set up the shots for your destroyers or most scarily the Light Cruiser. You can also squadron them for nasty punch.

I have met them being used well and quite nasty they can be.
 
They are effective little ships and they fill in the niche at the bottom of the fleet list. They probably could have been called frigates rather than transports.
I'll not suggest "improvements" for I am sure that someone will start a thread on that. ;)
 
I don't know, I just feel I get skunked too often, more that 25% for sure. (stupid dice)

also in a squadron you lose the IN. sink bonuses

oh well, I hope volon get some sweet ships in the new release so there is a bit more choice, like a patrol scout with a 3 SD beam precise with 10" range, stealth, 2 90" turns and all the vorlon fixens. heck the fighter has 1AD beam precise and you get three per patrol.
 
Marco Raimeous said:
I don't know, I just feel I get skunked too often, more that 25% for sure. (stupid dice)

also in a squadron you lose the IN. sink bonuses

oh well, I hope volon get some sweet ships in the new release so there is a bit more choice, like a patrol scout with a 3 SD beam precise with 10" range, stealth, 2 90" turns and all the vorlon fixens. heck the fighter has 1AD beam precise and you get three per patrol.

More ships would be nice. The Vorlons and Shadows could both use some smaller ships to round out the fleet. Though, I wouldn't sneeze at another capital ship. ;)
 
I wouldn't object to a ship for each class they don't already have...

I would like some alternatives myself The corp is mother the corp is father ;)

Rather have my own than leech of EA ship's. It also becomes annoying trying to get the right number of EA ships in a campaign list and then in the battles. To make sure I am sticking to the 2 points worth...
 
I'm totally fine with the Vorlons as they stand today. If there was anything they needed, it was a Raid level ship.

I could see some sort of atmospheric ship that could transport troops (1-2 individual Vorlons would almost BE an army themselves). That way, they could take planets after wiping out the enemy in space.

I know, I know, this is more of a way to fill a whole within the fleet. A fluffy way for Vorlons to conquer planets would be to blow them up instead....
 
Having just played Vree (me) vs Vorlon the other day, I can tell you that the transport is a very good ship! My opponent had 2 battle points worth. There were squadroned in groups of 4 ea. 2 AD each times 4 ships = 8AD!! Very effective!
 
Garibaldi said:
Having just played Vree (me) vs Vorlon the other day, I can tell you that the transport is a very good ship! My opponent had 2 battle points worth. There were squadroned in groups of 4 ea. 2 AD each times 4 ships = 8AD!! Very effective!

Yes, but your Vree always take an asswhoopin.... ;)
 
hmmmmm.... See the only problem with having 4 transports in a squadron is you don't get the IN bonus of having four smaller ships so why not take a destroyer with better range. Also if a transport gets knocked out you are down to 6 AD but the destroyer had a constant 6 all the way down to dead.

It is a tough call,
I would say have them in squadrons of 2 so at least you have 4AD and better In. sinks.
 
I don't know, I just feel I get skunked too often, more that 25% for sure. (stupid dice)
As noted, that's an issue with beam mechanics. More to the point, a 4AD beam from a pair of transports is the same as a Hyperion's main armament - except forward arc and precise. Believe, me, they're nasty little ships.

also in a squadron you lose the IN. sink bonuses
Yes, but you're only squadroning up skirmish-priority ships, so you can still have plenty, and it's not like your heavier ships are constrained by boresighted main guns. Nor, for that matter, is the light cruiser particularly unmanouvreable.

oh well, I hope volon get some sweet ships in the new release so there is a bit more choice, like a patrol scout with a 3 SD beam precise with 10" range, stealth, 2 90" turns and all the vorlon fixens. heck the fighter has 1AD beam precise and you get three per patrol.
The fighter has a precise beam, but it's got a mighty 3" range, and whilst the fighter has a defensive advanced anti-figher, it also has only dogfight +0, and dodge 3+ - meaning that normal secondary weapons can make quite a mess of them.

If you want a scout to have a useful range, it's going to have to be massively down-gunned. The only patrol level scouts are the Shyarie, the Jashakar Vi, the Kama'Re, the Eyehawk, and the Shadowcloak.

Only two of these are stealth-equipped, and they're all basically unarmed. 3 dice of precise beams nearly matches the laser armament of a Sullust escort destroyer. Add the various benefits of 'all the Vorlon fixings' and you have a ship which really doesn't rate patrol priority...


More importantly, there should not be a patrol priority vorlon warship on simple bacground terms. The transport is just that; a transport. It's a shuttle, a runaround - not a gunship. There shouldn't be anything smaller than that other than fighters.


As far as extra Vorlon ships are concerned, a far more useful one is a raid-priority vessel, since any 'holes' in the fleet list prevent you using the points breakdowns. A gap at armageddon-priority or patrol priority doesn't matter, nor does one at war priority if there are no armageddon priority ships, but one at raid doesn't half muck things about.

Fortunately, there were claims that El Sprange had (amongst a small bundle of other new ships) got a vorlon frigate's rules designed and tested, which should fit in nicely below the destroyer, and hence cover that gap.
 
@ locarno24

I think your arguments are valid at a higher priority level but at skirmish, and patrol level, vorlons are outclassed by the younger races completely. Take narn patrol cutters for instance, you can have 4 for every Vorlon transport. There is absolutely no way that transport can win. It is doing on average 4 damage per turn, those cutters have 8 AD each (32 AD total) and 12 damage each. Also, since those one damage pecks go through adaptive armour, it makes their armour far less effective. And a well placed crit. can knock it off completely making it the same damage as one cutter. The cutters also are agile so they can outfly the transport.

what I am say is have a ship that can compete with lower priority ships that is more competant than averaging 4 damage a turn (sure some times they can get a run away beam but you cannot count on that, and like wise you have a 25% chance of doing nothing)

if you squadron them up at low priority, your opponent basically chooses what you shoot at due to their forward arc beam and that allows them to spread their damage out over many ships.

I can see the patrol scout ship being overpowered for a patrol point, so knock off the stealth, put the range back to 8" or 6" but at least it is something competitive for lower priority games.

I don't know, I find it very difficult playing lower priority games with the vorlons, sure a transport is the smallest ship that carries a vorlon but the ships are living/oganic so why wouldn't they have unmanned scout ships?

Also the Sulust has 4 AD and the range is 24" and has the 8 AD of DD, TL at 12" making it quite different.
 
I don't know, I find it very difficult playing lower priority games with the vorlons, sure a transport is the smallest ship that carries a vorlon but the ships are living/oganic so why wouldn't they have unmanned scout ships?
AOG had super-heavy fighters in use by primordial Vorlons. They were not piloted by Vorlons directly, but instead were operated by servants (low-level telepaths IIRC). Take this up a slight notch into the LCV category and we could have a Patrol-level vessel.
 
skavendan said:
I wouldn't object to a ship for each class they don't already have...

I would like some alternatives myself The corp is mother the corp is father ;)

Rather have my own than leech of EA ship's. It also becomes annoying trying to get the right number of EA ships in a campaign list and then in the battles. To make sure I am sticking to the 2 points worth...

the 2 fap limit does not apply in campaign battles. As long as your full fleet selection for the campaign meets the requirement, in any campaign battle, you can in theory field ALL your allied ships and non of hyour core fleets.
 
yeah but last campaign was 10 battle so i took 2 battle points worth of patrol/skirmish. so you could pretty much predict what I would bring to a fight. unlike most races that have huge ranges to chose from.
 
I won't argue that I wouldn't expect the cutters to win (although it won't be quite the whitewash you'd expect). However I'm not surprised, and I don't think that's wrong to expect, for the following reasons.

1)
Actually it's a bit over 6 damage per turn. Not that the average value means much given the way beam weapons work, and the critical table - on a ship that small a double damage critical result is usually either 'dead outright' or doing no additional damage.

2)
A Sho'Kos may have 12 damage but it only has 10 crew.

3)
The Sho'Kos only has seven attack dice, not eight - one of which is in a boresight mount, and four of which are weak, needing 6's.

4)
I've never been quite comfortable with the 2-for-1 patrol ships as many of them seem as good or better than a lot of the regular patrol ships. The Tethys Laser Boat is a good example.

5)
This is the most important one, really - the patrol cutter is precisely what the transport is not designed to fight (multiple swarmy light ships) whilst the transport is about the only style of ship the Sho'Kos can be said to be well suited to fighting - a medium armoured target with big blind spots in its weapons.

Much of the 'cost' of the transport is the fact that its weapon is a beam. That means, that like all Vorlon weapons, it ignores armour and interceptors. This makes it nasty as hell against light craft with armour and interceptors (a Chronos springs to mind) but represents a load of wasted capability against the basically unarmoured Sho'Kos. So is the Advanced Anti-Fighter. So is the Superior Technology bonus against ships with Stealth. In armament, at least, you can level the same accusation at a lot of Minbari ships; all beam or mini-beam weaponry.

For comparison, imagine a Maximus and a transport trading fire - the escort frigate has more attack dice, a better hull, more hit points, and Interceptors, but will be taking that same 6.27 damage per turn in exchange for delivering less than 3 damage per turn back. One of which Self-Repairs.

The Vorlon transport has identical firepower to a Drakh Heavy Raider, which is one of the nastier swarmy ships out there itself.

I don't know, I find it very difficult playing lower priority games with the vorlons, sure a transport is the smallest ship that carries a vorlon but the ships are living/oganic so why wouldn't they have unmanned scout ships?
Why would they make a military unit less capable than a runaround shuttle? And note that the same argument that applied to the Shadows applies to the Vorlons - they don't care about adapting to the younger races.

'Priority level' is an artificial concept - give the Vorlons a raid-level ship that you can fit into a minimum-sized skirmish priority game and you get a better situation; the Vorlons are supposed to have trouble putting together a fleet at that level because their primary fighting ship is a war-priority vessel (much like Minbari or Crusade-era EA).
 
I usually use them in large numbers to burn ships out of the sky.

... Of course, the higher the priority, more this tactic works because you have the heavy ships do the primary burning, and the transports wrecking whatever happens to remain of their ship.
 
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