Superjaded
Mongoose
msprange said:Mr Evil said:
Imagine that
One day, people will come to grips with the idea that all our vehicles are in scale perfectly
If we ever get them....
Wave 2 Releases
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
If we ever get them....
Ah, so it's OK because in 2015, people are all 6'+ tall :roll:
Check this out, towards the bottom of the page. You'll notice that male height around the world hovers around 5'8" - 5'9". There are no figures in that for middle-eastern countries (with the exception of Israel, which probably doesn't count due to ethnic characteristics) but I should expect them to deviate towards the lower end of the average (5'7" or so?).
I do not contend that the vehicles are scaled near-perfectly to 1:65 - but even a 5'9" man (about 175cm) would scale at (1750 / 65 =) barely 27mm. The BF:EVO infantry appears to be pushing 29-30mm, and then there's the bases too...
Whether this bothers you or not is a matter of personal preference. As a wargamer I'm well used to slightly over/undersized vehicles in comparison to my infantry, and once it's been on the table for a bit it will grow on you. But don't try to tell me the scale between infantry and vehicles is all spot-on, it simply isn't.
Check this out, towards the bottom of the page. You'll notice that male height around the world hovers around 5'8" - 5'9". There are no figures in that for middle-eastern countries (with the exception of Israel, which probably doesn't count due to ethnic characteristics) but I should expect them to deviate towards the lower end of the average (5'7" or so?).
I do not contend that the vehicles are scaled near-perfectly to 1:65 - but even a 5'9" man (about 175cm) would scale at (1750 / 65 =) barely 27mm. The BF:EVO infantry appears to be pushing 29-30mm, and then there's the bases too...
Whether this bothers you or not is a matter of personal preference. As a wargamer I'm well used to slightly over/undersized vehicles in comparison to my infantry, and once it's been on the table for a bit it will grow on you. But don't try to tell me the scale between infantry and vehicles is all spot-on, it simply isn't.
You'll note too that the mongoose scales are actually acurate in the terms that there are actually people that big around...realism depending on ethnicity is another point but I'm not fussed.
You'll also note that the vehicles aren't 40k style... "so... how does a squad of terminators fit into there cause they don't duck". :lol:
You'll also note that the vehicles aren't 40k style... "so... how does a squad of terminators fit into there cause they don't duck". :lol:
im 6' tall my friends hover around a little shorter or the same hieght as me, when im out i see lots of people taller than me.
Country Average Male Height Population
Netherlands 182.5 cm 16,318,199
Denmark 181.5 cm 5,413,392
Switzerland 180.5 cm 7,450,867
Germany 180.2 cm 82,424,609
Croatia 180.0 cm 4,496,869
Norway 180.0 cm 137,253,133
Sweden 179.6 cm 8,986,400
Iran 178.7 cm 67,503,205
Austria 178.2 cm 8,174,762
Finland 178.2 cm 5,214,512
Czech Republic 178.0 cm 10,246,178
Romania 178.0 cm 22,355,551
South Africa 177.4 cm 42,718,530
Zimbabwe 177.2 cm 12,671,860
Australia 177.0 cm 19,913,144
Canada 177.0 cm 32,507,874
United Kingdom 177.0 cm 60,270,708
Greece 176.8 cm 10,647,529
France 176.6 cm 60,424,213
Ukraine 176.5 cm 47,732,079
Iraq 176.3 cm 25,374,691
Lebanon 176.2 cm 3,777,218
Ireland 176.1 cm 3,969,558
Zambia 176.0 cm 10,462,436
Russia 175.9 cm 143,782,338
Belgium 175.6 cm 10,348,276
United States 175.5 cm 293,027,571
Uzbekistan 175.4 cm 26,410,416
Poland 175.3 cm 38,626,349
Egypt 175.0 cm 76,117,421
New Zealand 175.0 cm 3,993,817
Senegal 175.0 cm 10,852,147
Portugal 174.6 cm 10,524,145
Saudi Arabia 174.6 cm 25,795,938
Argentina 174.4 cm 39,144,753
Uruguay 174.3 cm 3,399,237
Brazil 174.0 cm 184,101,109
Cuba 174.0 cm 11,308,764
Peru 173.8 cm 27,544,305
Thailand 173.6 cm 64,865,523
Spain 173.4 cm 40,280,780
Korea, South 173.3 cm 48,598,175
Paraguay 173.1 cm 6,191,368
Syria 173.0 cm 18,016,874
Chile 173.0 cm 15,823,957
Morocco 173.0 cm 32,209,101
Turkey 172.5 cm 68,893,918
Tunisia 172.3 cm 9,974,722
Colombia 172.3 cm 42,310,775
Algeria 172.2 cm 32,129,324
Mexico 171.8 cm 104,959,594
Cameroon 171.0 cm 16,063,678
Indonesia 170.0 cm 238,452,952
China 169.7 cm 1,298,847,624
Pakistan 169.3 cm 159,196,336
Japan 168.3 cm 127,333,002
Mongolia 168.0 cm 2,751,314
India 167.6 cm 1,065,070,607
Italy 165.6 cm 58,057,477
Philippines 165.0 cm 86,241,697
Korea, North 164.9 cm 22,697,553
Malaysia 163.5 cm 23,522,482
Vietnam 162.5 cm 82,689,518
Singapore 162.2 cm 4,353,893
Cambodia 160.0 cm 13,363,421
acording to this the average iranian is taller than th average brit and the average brit is taller than the average american.
Human height can be changed by many factors. Since the development of modern medicine and plentiful food in the developed world average height has increased dramatically. Nutrition is the most important factor in height, and height records from military records and other documents can be used to quite accurately compare nutrition in various eras. Evidence has shown that height decreased in Britain in the early nineteenth century, before beginning its long increase around mid-century. Increase in height has not been constant, however. The European Dark Ages were an era of considerable height with men of above six feet (183 cm) considered unremarkable. In Europe human height reached its nadir at the start of the nineteenth century. The average height in Napoleon's army was about five feet (152 cm). Until the general rise in human health the general trend was as urbanization increased height declined.
Americans were far taller in the nineteenth century, the tallest in the world. However since the Second World War the height of Europeans have grown to surpass Americans by a fair margin, and has shown no sign of slowing. For instance the Netherlands was in the late nineteenth century a land renown for its short population, but today it has one of the tallest averages in the world with men averaging 6'0" (182.5 cm) tall. Average height in impoverished Vietnam and North Korea remains very small (5'4"/162.5 cm and 4'11"/150 cm respectively, for young men), especially in contrast to the extreme growth occurring in surrounding Asian populations with higher standards of living (young South Koreans are about a foot taller than their North Korean counterparts, on average).
Height has important social ramifications. For men shortness is often a disadvantage with women finding short men less attractive and other men less likely to respect them. For instance taller politicians have a tendency to win elections. Studies have found taller men marry earlier and earn higher wages. (However, some studies suggest that it is not adult height but rather the usually-correlated height during adolescence that is the determinative factor, suggesting that it is the impact of height on self-image that is operative.) It is almost the opposite for women where great height can be seen as unattractive.
Height can also play a role in sports. For most sports, height is useful as it affects the leverage between muscle volume and bones towards greater speed of movement. It is perhaps most valuable in basketball and volleyball where extreme height is a great advantage. In some sports such as horse riding and gymnastics a compact frame is far more valuable.
The study of human growth is known as axiology. Growth and height have long been recognized as a measure of the health and wellness of individuals, hence part of the reasoning for the use of growth charts. Genetics is a major factor in determining the height of individuals, though it is less influential in regard to populations. Average height is increasingly used as a measure of the health and wellness of populations. This is attributed as a significant cause for the trends of increasing height for egalitarian populations where medical care and proper nutrition are more equally distributed. Diet, exercise, fitness, pollution exposure, sleep patterns, and climate are other possible factors.
The relationship between genetics and environment is uncertain. Certainly there are substantial relationships in the general heights of biological families; and the heights of parents and family are a fairly good predictor for the height of their children. However, as cited, there is strong environmental influence as well. Asian populations were once thought to be inherently shorter, though it now seems that humans as a species probably have a similar genetic height potential, and it is clear that genotypic size has not yet been realized.
hope that helps
Country Average Male Height Population
Netherlands 182.5 cm 16,318,199
Denmark 181.5 cm 5,413,392
Switzerland 180.5 cm 7,450,867
Germany 180.2 cm 82,424,609
Croatia 180.0 cm 4,496,869
Norway 180.0 cm 137,253,133
Sweden 179.6 cm 8,986,400
Iran 178.7 cm 67,503,205
Austria 178.2 cm 8,174,762
Finland 178.2 cm 5,214,512
Czech Republic 178.0 cm 10,246,178
Romania 178.0 cm 22,355,551
South Africa 177.4 cm 42,718,530
Zimbabwe 177.2 cm 12,671,860
Australia 177.0 cm 19,913,144
Canada 177.0 cm 32,507,874
United Kingdom 177.0 cm 60,270,708
Greece 176.8 cm 10,647,529
France 176.6 cm 60,424,213
Ukraine 176.5 cm 47,732,079
Iraq 176.3 cm 25,374,691
Lebanon 176.2 cm 3,777,218
Ireland 176.1 cm 3,969,558
Zambia 176.0 cm 10,462,436
Russia 175.9 cm 143,782,338
Belgium 175.6 cm 10,348,276
United States 175.5 cm 293,027,571
Uzbekistan 175.4 cm 26,410,416
Poland 175.3 cm 38,626,349
Egypt 175.0 cm 76,117,421
New Zealand 175.0 cm 3,993,817
Senegal 175.0 cm 10,852,147
Portugal 174.6 cm 10,524,145
Saudi Arabia 174.6 cm 25,795,938
Argentina 174.4 cm 39,144,753
Uruguay 174.3 cm 3,399,237
Brazil 174.0 cm 184,101,109
Cuba 174.0 cm 11,308,764
Peru 173.8 cm 27,544,305
Thailand 173.6 cm 64,865,523
Spain 173.4 cm 40,280,780
Korea, South 173.3 cm 48,598,175
Paraguay 173.1 cm 6,191,368
Syria 173.0 cm 18,016,874
Chile 173.0 cm 15,823,957
Morocco 173.0 cm 32,209,101
Turkey 172.5 cm 68,893,918
Tunisia 172.3 cm 9,974,722
Colombia 172.3 cm 42,310,775
Algeria 172.2 cm 32,129,324
Mexico 171.8 cm 104,959,594
Cameroon 171.0 cm 16,063,678
Indonesia 170.0 cm 238,452,952
China 169.7 cm 1,298,847,624
Pakistan 169.3 cm 159,196,336
Japan 168.3 cm 127,333,002
Mongolia 168.0 cm 2,751,314
India 167.6 cm 1,065,070,607
Italy 165.6 cm 58,057,477
Philippines 165.0 cm 86,241,697
Korea, North 164.9 cm 22,697,553
Malaysia 163.5 cm 23,522,482
Vietnam 162.5 cm 82,689,518
Singapore 162.2 cm 4,353,893
Cambodia 160.0 cm 13,363,421
acording to this the average iranian is taller than th average brit and the average brit is taller than the average american.
Human height can be changed by many factors. Since the development of modern medicine and plentiful food in the developed world average height has increased dramatically. Nutrition is the most important factor in height, and height records from military records and other documents can be used to quite accurately compare nutrition in various eras. Evidence has shown that height decreased in Britain in the early nineteenth century, before beginning its long increase around mid-century. Increase in height has not been constant, however. The European Dark Ages were an era of considerable height with men of above six feet (183 cm) considered unremarkable. In Europe human height reached its nadir at the start of the nineteenth century. The average height in Napoleon's army was about five feet (152 cm). Until the general rise in human health the general trend was as urbanization increased height declined.
Americans were far taller in the nineteenth century, the tallest in the world. However since the Second World War the height of Europeans have grown to surpass Americans by a fair margin, and has shown no sign of slowing. For instance the Netherlands was in the late nineteenth century a land renown for its short population, but today it has one of the tallest averages in the world with men averaging 6'0" (182.5 cm) tall. Average height in impoverished Vietnam and North Korea remains very small (5'4"/162.5 cm and 4'11"/150 cm respectively, for young men), especially in contrast to the extreme growth occurring in surrounding Asian populations with higher standards of living (young South Koreans are about a foot taller than their North Korean counterparts, on average).
Height has important social ramifications. For men shortness is often a disadvantage with women finding short men less attractive and other men less likely to respect them. For instance taller politicians have a tendency to win elections. Studies have found taller men marry earlier and earn higher wages. (However, some studies suggest that it is not adult height but rather the usually-correlated height during adolescence that is the determinative factor, suggesting that it is the impact of height on self-image that is operative.) It is almost the opposite for women where great height can be seen as unattractive.
Height can also play a role in sports. For most sports, height is useful as it affects the leverage between muscle volume and bones towards greater speed of movement. It is perhaps most valuable in basketball and volleyball where extreme height is a great advantage. In some sports such as horse riding and gymnastics a compact frame is far more valuable.
The study of human growth is known as axiology. Growth and height have long been recognized as a measure of the health and wellness of individuals, hence part of the reasoning for the use of growth charts. Genetics is a major factor in determining the height of individuals, though it is less influential in regard to populations. Average height is increasingly used as a measure of the health and wellness of populations. This is attributed as a significant cause for the trends of increasing height for egalitarian populations where medical care and proper nutrition are more equally distributed. Diet, exercise, fitness, pollution exposure, sleep patterns, and climate are other possible factors.
The relationship between genetics and environment is uncertain. Certainly there are substantial relationships in the general heights of biological families; and the heights of parents and family are a fairly good predictor for the height of their children. However, as cited, there is strong environmental influence as well. Asian populations were once thought to be inherently shorter, though it now seems that humans as a species probably have a similar genetic height potential, and it is clear that genotypic size has not yet been realized.
hope that helps
Mr Evil said:
I'm a bit taller than that, actually - guess that means I'll score all the chicks and lead a disproportionally successful life
Let me make myself clear one more time - I'm not complaining about the scale. As a manufacturer, at some point you just have to put your foot down and say "sod it, we're going with this". As long as it is not off by a mile, "a bit too small" will work just as well as "a bit too big" , especially once you as a gamer get used to it.
The only thing I object to is Mr Evil and others trying to spoonfeed people the idea that the scale is "spot on" when it is quite clearly off between the vehicles and the infantry.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Iranians doctored the surveys to impress the infidels with their manly tallness :lol:
And then there's still:
Iraq 176.3 cm
Lebanon 176.2 cm
Saudi Arabia 174.6 cm
Syria 173.0 cm
I didn't know the Syrians were so short - explains a thing or two...
Anyway, bottom line, most folks are under 6' tall and should, in 1:65, just scratch 27mm. With infantry minis in the 28-30mm range, the scale is not spot on. This is visually compounded by the infantry's bases. When push comes to shove, it's a matter of personal taste whether you can accept this discrepancy or not on the gaming table (I for one would have no trouble with it).
agashamirv
Mongoose
Is something obvious being missed here?
How tall is the average soldier? It seems to me, at least in my experience, soldiers are, on average, taller than the general population.
I have a friend who was a US Marine, and he's about 5' 7". Everyone does a doubletake when they find this out, as he looks too short to be a Marine.
Is it possible that Mongoose considered that as part of their scaling of the soldiers?
Just a thought.
How tall is the average soldier? It seems to me, at least in my experience, soldiers are, on average, taller than the general population.
I have a friend who was a US Marine, and he's about 5' 7". Everyone does a doubletake when they find this out, as he looks too short to be a Marine.
Is it possible that Mongoose considered that as part of their scaling of the soldiers?
Just a thought.
im 6' with a britsh kevlar helmet im 6'3-6'4" sorta hard to measure, so maybe that exsplains some of it ?
EDIT
just had a play with a calculator at 6'3" thats at 1/65 scale 30mm, i was in agreement a while ago about infantry being to big but as time goese on they do seem more in line !!! if a british infantry man is 30mm tall with brain bucket on his head and standard biritsh infantry boots on he should be around 30mm tall not including base.
actualy i didnt measure with boots on so maybe brit infantry could be a bit short !
EDIT
scratch that, boots make very little differance it seems.
EDIT
just had a play with a calculator at 6'3" thats at 1/65 scale 30mm, i was in agreement a while ago about infantry being to big but as time goese on they do seem more in line !!! if a british infantry man is 30mm tall with brain bucket on his head and standard biritsh infantry boots on he should be around 30mm tall not including base.
actualy i didnt measure with boots on so maybe brit infantry could be a bit short !
EDIT
scratch that, boots make very little differance it seems.
That's still assuming a 6' man, which is the whole issue. I did the measurements some time ago on that picture Mat posted of a USMC model with ruler and - after compensating generously for helmet and boots - still made it 29mm toe-to-head. That translates to about 6'3" natural height. I guess I could dig out the thread again if you really want me to.
Maybe the British models are a touch shorter, I don't know. I do know the MEA are even taller.
A 5'9" man - ie. already on the tall end of average - is about 175cm tall, and should be 27mm at 1/65. Let's be generous and allow 3" of helmet and boots, making him 6' - that would be 182cm, translating to 28mm at 1/65.
Maybe the British models are a touch shorter, I don't know. I do know the MEA are even taller.
A 5'9" man - ie. already on the tall end of average - is about 175cm tall, and should be 27mm at 1/65. Let's be generous and allow 3" of helmet and boots, making him 6' - that would be 182cm, translating to 28mm at 1/65.
your fussin obver a mm or 2 on aguy i dont evan know whos that short !!!!
5'9" !!! thats the sort aguy we take piss out of, i feel sorry for my friends who are 5'10"
sorry if you have height issues.
thing is to a 6' guys there in scale, next you be saying as average players are spotty teenagers they should be scaled to a 5'5" kid and have achne ?
im glad im not playing with wimpy midget guys, give me a real trooper to use any day, and send the midget patrol to lillyput for an invasion there or to attack the hobbits, i for one dont wish for a hobbit force of bellow 5'10 men.
sorry mat i know your on the short side, but thems the breaks
5'9" !!! thats the sort aguy we take piss out of, i feel sorry for my friends who are 5'10"
sorry if you have height issues.
thing is to a 6' guys there in scale, next you be saying as average players are spotty teenagers they should be scaled to a 5'5" kid and have achne ?
im glad im not playing with wimpy midget guys, give me a real trooper to use any day, and send the midget patrol to lillyput for an invasion there or to attack the hobbits, i for one dont wish for a hobbit force of bellow 5'10 men.
sorry mat i know your on the short side, but thems the breaks
Relax Evil, I'm about 6'1" myself - a fine specimen of the tallest people on the planet
Yeah, I'm fussing over a couple of mm because that's what makes the difference between "spot on" and "a little bit off", which has been my point all along. Again, whether it bothers you or not is a matter of personal taste. It doesn't really bother me. But the math don't lie.
Yeah, I'm fussing over a couple of mm because that's what makes the difference between "spot on" and "a little bit off", which has been my point all along. Again, whether it bothers you or not is a matter of personal taste. It doesn't really bother me. But the math don't lie.
i agree the math dont lie, all figs acording to a bith of math should range from 28mm to 30mm and it has been said on a few pocasions they were scaled to 6' not 5'8 wich to me is good, cuz it mean comercialy available terrian looks good.
bothers me ? it did but after having the stuff i have had for as long as ive had, it less than bothers me after 3 months of owning it and comparing it i have to say every day it conferms it acuracy to scale where once i thought it didnt.
so my advice in hindsight, is give it time and a chance.
bothers me ? it did but after having the stuff i have had for as long as ive had, it less than bothers me after 3 months of owning it and comparing it i have to say every day it conferms it acuracy to scale where once i thought it didnt.
so my advice in hindsight, is give it time and a chance.
Dorb said:
Heh. You ever see the movie "White Men Can't Jump"?
On topic: I'd be kind of surprised if soldiers are actually as tall as the PR leads people to believe. One of my high school coaches was a Vietnam vet, and he was fairly clear that big soldier = less cover, with generally poor results for the soldier. And I know that tank crews have a height limit, as one might expect. (I don't know what the limit is in the U.S., but I read somewhere that it was 5'6" in France.) If anyone has stats specific to army recruits, rather than national averages, that might be of interest.
agashamirv said:
I don't think its that most soldiers are taller than average..... I think its more likely that Hollywood hires tall men to play soldiers in movies as they look more manly / evil or something being taller than civilians they are helping / killing and look better when running around waving machine guns from their hips whilst chewing on cigars.
i think in the uk taller stronger people join the army, and the rest go other paths.
average height in the british forces is of course brought down due to female members of our forces, im sure if they did just male it would hover around and exceed 6' as a 6' guy myself im a shorty compared to freinds still in the forces. that is for british forces, i do remeber seeing some us forces and coments were they wer very well built if a bit short. i have to ask are these stocky men on any supliments or body building stims as standard ? the brit guys in comparison were a bit skinny lol.
average height in the british forces is of course brought down due to female members of our forces, im sure if they did just male it would hover around and exceed 6' as a 6' guy myself im a shorty compared to freinds still in the forces. that is for british forces, i do remeber seeing some us forces and coments were they wer very well built if a bit short. i have to ask are these stocky men on any supliments or body building stims as standard ? the brit guys in comparison were a bit skinny lol.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Mr Evil said:
That's not correct Evil. You need to be 6' to join the Guards regiments, the majority of soldiers are shorter
The Old Soldier
Mongoose
All you tall blokes just make easier targets. :twisted:
