Vorlon fighters and counters

[thatcash]

Half tactics question, half rules question, half "what does everyone do?" question...

I have an upcoming 9pt War game (my opponent will probably be bringing a League fleet) and I was thinking of playing the Vorlons: 2 Heavy Cruisers, 3 Light Cruisers, 3 Destroyers, and 6 picks of fighters (for a total of 18). I was planning on having the fighters support the ships (as a way of piggy backing them into battle and protecting them from enemy fighters).

1a)Can enemy fighters dogfight fighters that are supporting ships (instead of making an attack run on the ship itself and drawing them out that way)?

1b)Also, if an enemy flight starts a dogfight within two inches of my ships, will the "charged pulse" defensive system of Vorlon ships automatically fire at them? On one hand, assuming all the conditions are met, each enemy aux craft is targeted by a 1AD, AF, attack. On the other hand, I can't fire at enemy fighters engaged in a dogfight...

2) How useful have the Vorlon fighters been for people? Great in the right circumstances? Useless and a Destroyer (or drop a Destroyer and the fighters and take a Light Cruiser) would be better?

3) Fighters ignore stealth w/in 1 inch and with counters (assuming you're attacking 1 arc with your fighters), this pretty much means that only 1 fighter counter will be able to ignore stealth because you can't overlap fighter counters on ship counters, correct?

 

[katadder]

yes fighters can dogfight you vorlons on CAP. and yes if they get within 2" to do it then you do get your charged energy pulse.
as for the stealth avoiding, usually i think its about 2 per arc possibly 3 if they lucky or the fighters on round bases

 

[Greg Smith]

1a)Can enemy fighters dogfight fighters that are supporting ships (instead of making an attack run on the ship itself and drawing them out that way)?

Yes.

1b)Also, if an enemy flight starts a dogfight within two inches of my ships, will the "charged pulse" defensive system of Vorlon ships automatically fire at them? On one hand, assuming all the conditions are met, each enemy aux craft is targeted by a 1AD, AF, attack. On the other hand, I can't fire at enemy fighters engaged in a dogfight...

Assume the pulse zaps all the fighters, just that the Vorlons' fighters are immune.

2) How useful have the Vorlon fighters been for people? Great in the right circumstances? Useless and a Destroyer (or drop a Destroyer and the fighters and take a Light Cruiser) would be better?

They are good against ships, but any enemy fighter will destroy you in dogfights before you get there. They could do okay against the League, since they don't have many good dogfighters. If you are facing EA, Centauri, ISA or Minbari, you will just lose them in droves.

3) Fighters ignore stealth w/in 1 inch and with counters (assuming you're attacking 1 arc with your fighters), this pretty much means that only 1 fighter counter will be able to ignore stealth because you can't overlap fighter counters on ship counters, correct?

You can overlap fighters on ship counters. It isn't explicit in the rules, but it has been confirmed on here that both supporting and attacking fighters can be placed on your base/counter. Also given the size of some bases, it would be impossible to get fighters within 1".

 

[thatcash]

[any enemy fighter will destroy you in dogfights before you get there. They could do okay against the League, since they don't have many good dogfighters. If you are facing EA, Centauri, ISA or Minbari, you will just lose them in droves.

That's why I had the idea of tucking them up against my shps. Who needs dogfights when the charged pulse defense will swat the low numbered hullers down.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Why take them at all, then? You can get anti-shipping firepower from your capital units.

 

[tneva82]

Why take them at all, then? You can get anti-shipping firepower from your capital units.

Precise beam they posses comes to mind.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Aren't most Vorlon beams precise? I reckon another cruiser or so would be a better use of points than crap dogfighters. Fighters really need to be there to keep enemy fighters off your ships, but Vorlon fighters can't effectively do this either by superiority or numbers.

 

[tneva82]

Aren't most Vorlon beams precise? I reckon another cruiser or so would be a better use of points than crap dogfighters. Fighters really need to be there to keep enemy fighters off your ships, but Vorlon fighters can't effectively do this either by superiority or numbers.

Fighters could swarm in behind blank spots of enemy though. White stars, drakh raiders...

Also as for enemy fighters. Any turn where vorlon wins initiave enemy fighters have to face nasty decision: Simply bugger off out of range of vorlon ships or go into dogfight with vorlon fighters and face EMP pulse. Any other answer and they get hit by AF beam from those fighters.

If they bugger off then vorlon fighters have kept fighters off your ship.

If they dogfight your fighters then a) you have drawn them into EMP pulse range(rather than bombarding them at 4" with missiles) and b) have kept them from firing at your capital ship this turn.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Yeah, maybe. They really ought to have some dogfight bonus, though. I'm sure the First Ones caught onto ship-to-ship combat with their fighters at some stage in the billion years since they got into space...

 

[Valen is my name]

the fighters are good if the enemy gets behind your main shps, whilst some are turning around, the fighters can swarm around them and take away the pressure. they are good against ships, and will can do a lot more damage to ships that have got behind you as the vorlons have no arcs other than forward.

if you still get 3 flights for one patrol point, and your spending the entire point on fighters you should actually get 36 fighters not 18!

 

[tneva82]

if you still get 3 flights for one patrol point, and your spending the entire point on fighters you should actually get 36 fighters not 18!

I think he splits war point into 2 battle of which one is split into 6 patrol points which gives 18 fighters.

 

[Valen is my name]

does anyone know where i can get some counters from? i used to have some somewhere but i think i lent them to someone but never got them bac, is there anyway to get some counters without buying the SFoS counter set again?

 

[thatcash]

the fighters are good if the enemy gets behind your main shps, whilst some are turning around, the fighters can swarm around them and take away the pressure. they are good against ships, and will can do a lot more damage to ships that have got behind you as the vorlons have no arcs other than forward.

That's why I was thinking of taking them...I was just planning on how to make them survive against the other fighters on the board.

if you still get 3 flights for one patrol point, and your spending the entire point on fighters you should actually get 36 fighters not 18!

I spent the point on one Destroyer and fighter picks.

 

[Da Boss]

Aren't most Vorlon beams precise? I reckon another cruiser or so would be a better use of points than crap dogfighters. Fighters really need to be there to keep enemy fighters off your ships, but Vorlon fighters can't effectively do this either by superiority or numbers.

Fighters could swarm in behind blank spots of enemy though. White stars, drakh raiders...

Also as for enemy fighters. Any turn where vorlon wins initiave enemy fighters have to face nasty decision: Simply bugger off out of range of vorlon ships or go into dogfight with vorlon fighters and face EMP pulse. Any other answer and they get hit by AF beam from those fighters.

If they bugger off then vorlon fighters have kept fighters off your ship.

If they dogfight your fighters then a) you have drawn them into EMP pulse range(rather than bombarding them at 4" with missiles) and b) have kept them from firing at your capital ship this turn.

Of course the best fighters (for dogfighting) tend to be on fleets with good Iniative - Centauri / Minbari and can have the Command bonuses to make it even better.............and it depends if your ships are doing any special actions (and losing the pulse) because they will hit your fighters then

 

[tneva82]

Of course the best fighters (for dogfighting) tend to be on fleets with good Iniative - Centauri / Minbari and can have the Command bonuses to make it even better.............and it depends if your ships are doing any special actions (and losing the pulse) because they will hit your fighters then

Of course if you lose initiave you can be there in your bases extending AF range of EMP pulse by making sure that if anybody comes near capital ships either he's in range of pulse or fighters AF beam. So losing initiave isn't complete disaster even then.

 

[Da Boss]

Of course the best fighters (for dogfighting) tend to be on fleets with good Iniative - Centauri / Minbari and can have the Command bonuses to make it even better.............and it depends if your ships are doing any special actions (and losing the pulse) because they will hit your fighters then

Of course if you lose initiave you can be there in your bases extending AF range of EMP pulse by making sure that if anybody comes near capital ships either he's in range of pulse or fighters AF beam. So losing initiave isn't complete disaster even then.

Whenever I fought them a good number of ships are either Coming About, All Stopping or using All power to engines - so lost their pulse - thats when you jump on the fighters and slaughter them................

 

[Ripple]

yeah the pulse is nice but frankly if you want to win in the Vorlons you are almost always having to use some special action to optimize your arc for the following turn. Letting someone behind you is not a complete disaster as long as you have transports/destroyers around, but the big boys are too hard to get around so you have to kind of weave you way forward so that you can make snap turns to face all arcs.

op said the force was this?
2 war points - heavy
2 war points - heavy
1 war - light
1 war - light
1 war - light
1 war - 2 destroyers
1 war - 1 destroyer, 6 wings

My question is why no transports? The sinks are often necessary, as good as fighters behind you and given arm breakdowns not a bad buy even though fragile at this level.

2 war - heavy
2 war - heavy
1 war - light
1 war - light
1 war - destroyer, transport, 3 wings
1 war - destroyer, transport, 3 wings
1 war - destroyer, transport, 3 wings

transports trail the force at about six inches to avoid long range early salvoes and engage and flankers, the flights are used to escort the destroyer raid group - the most likely to face a fighter attack if used aggressively - and the cruisers, well they sumo the center of the board.

I just worry you don't have a response force in your set up, as well as a raid force to go get that critical ship of the enemy. A three destroyer squadron can crush most things - if only through crits - and you still have seven other ships that can sink for the squadron. Personally I think two heavies is a bit much but Vorlons are one of the few that can do it well, and the ships is just too attractive to not want to try it.

Ripple

 

[thatcash]

That is the original force.

I didn't go with transports because of their apparent fragility. I also didn't bother with a "problem ship" strike force because of the way my opponent plays. He's good at anticipating what ships of his might give me fits and arranges his fleet to chump block for it. I've found it easier to either send a group of fast ships on an end-around or blast a few ships in the middle and send my formation in the gap (both won't really be an option here).

Hrm...fascinating idea with the transports. I was planning on having the HCs trail in order to get a solid fire envelope (as opposed to a layered one).