Vargr weakness

[Vormaerin]

You could ignore the pluses and minuses. Each new iteration of Trav makes all the species even weaker, somehow.
Zhodani may have psionics, but their TL is stagnant at TL 14 so the Imperial WASPS can have the technological superiority. Aslan, Vargr and other species are somehow lesser in some way - smaller characteristic die rolls, inferior senses - just to give the humans a sense of advantage.

No, not advantage. Supremacy.

Other than the setting conceit that the Imperium has the highest tech, I don't buy the rest of that at all. There are aliens that are dramatically physically superior to humans (Virushi) and aliens that are dramatically physically inferior to humans. Importantly, aliens are almost always presented as intellectualy equal to humans.

Aslan are not inferior to humans, for instance. If you assume a straight 777 baseline for physical stats, Aslan would be 868 and have a bonus to senses and the dewclaw.

Vargr have always been a 686 physical statline. The mongoose 586 is definitely an outlier, but there's no reason to think its a vast conspiracy to make humans supreme.

The fact that three of the six major states (Imperium, Consulate, Confederacy vs the Heirate, Federation, 2k Worlds) are human is definitely also a setting conceit, but even that is largely attributed to aliens (aka the Ancients), not some human specialness. Unless you think being picked as Grandfather's favorite servants a mark of racial superiority.

 

[JNJ]

in Mongoose 1st edition Alien 2 - Vargr module, there were 6 subspecies with different bonus and malus. I found it was very interesting and remember asking why it was not in 2nd edition. As far as I can remember I was answered it would be further detailed in a later publication.
character generation p.3 was :

SUBSPECIES
d66 Subspecies Additional Traits
11 Kokasha Notable Intelligence (+2), Weak Strength (–2), Weak Endurance (–2)
12 Nakagun Notable Psionic Strength (+2), Weak Strength (–2), Weak Endurance (–1), Psionic
13 Roth Thokken Notable Psionic Strength (+4), Weak Strength (–2), Weak Endurance (–1), Blind, Psionic
14–16 Akumgeda Notable Psionic Strength (+1), Weak Strength (–1), Weak Endurance (–1), Psionic
21–26 Urzaeng Notable Dexterity (+1), Notable Strength (+1), Weak Intelligence (–2)
31–66 Standard Notable Dexterity (+1), Weak Strength (–1), Weak Endurance (–1)

 

[Sigtrygg]

Imagine if we did sub-species of Terran human...

 

[JustEastOfTheEdge]

Don't have to imagine that, just switch on CNN.

 

[TrippyHippy]

So, generally speaking, dogs have a smaller size than humans but a much greater power-to-weight ratio due to having more fast twitch fibres. This could contribute to a higher Dex than Humans too, in effect but I think the -2 Str is a bit harsh myself. However, having a greater ratio of fast twitch fibres would also make them weaker at End. Humans are usually better at long distance running because they sweat rather than pant (to cool down).

Of course, this is just comparing unevolved dogs to humans, rather than Vargr directly. I would argue that the -2 Strength penalty ought to be -1 unless the muscle mass is significantly smaller. Maybe it is. How big is a Vargr on average?

 

[MongooseMatt]

The Vargr lobby is indeed powerful, and we must give way to it.

There will be an update coming very soon that will set Vargr to STR -1 - by all means consider this an official ruling to be implemented straight away

 

[Sigtrygg]

VARGR ARE NOT, AND NEVER HAVE BEEN, DOGS.

They were genetically modified from wolves, possibly dire wolves, over 300,000 years ago. Much like the Zhodani were able to evolve into three "sub-species" the vargr have had ample time to do so too.

Which begs the question, if the Vargr and Zhodani can do it, where are the Vilani, Solomani etc. "sub-species" for character generation purposes?
+1STR, DEX, END, -2 INT
-1STR, END, =2INT
that sort of thing.
Original T2300 has stats adjusted by body type...

 

[alex_greene]

I'd just give all of them the same 2D for their characteristics, no modifiers, and then tack species-specific Traits onto them, such as:-
- Tall: Maximum STR species trait is 16, not 15.
- Lithe: DEX characteristic checks are one grade easier.
- Claws: +1 to damage inflicted in unarmed Melee Combat
- Improved Sense (specific sense): Recon and Track checks are one grade easier for that improved sense

 

[TrippyHippy]

VARGR ARE NOT, AND NEVER HAVE BEEN, DOGS.

That’s a bit like when Scooby-Doo gets offended when he is called a dog - “DOG?!!”

Anyway, I’ve just ordered Aliens of the Imperium 3 so our party can play Space Elves, Space Dwarves, Space Lizards and Big Space Fish....

 

[Vormaerin]

Well, "dogs" as a type of creature didn't exist 300,000 years ago. Technically, all the Vargr documentation ever says is "Canidae", which covers more than wolves even 300,000 years ago. But all the art even from the early days is more lupine than fox or jackal, say. Though its rare that anyone gives the Vargr the shortened muzzles that the text refers to.

 

[Condottiere]

Marooned Vargr?

 

[Condottiere]

1. Bite.

2. So, why didn't the Solomani uplift dogs?

3. Parallel evolution, if not selective breeding.

 

[Vormaerin]

Originally, Vargr didn't have a bite attack. It mentioned that they sometimes bit as part of Infighting, but it wasn't any different than any other HTH attack. They had claws, though.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The Vargr lobby is indeed powerful, and we must give way to it.

There will be an update coming very soon that will set Vargr to STR -1 - by all means consider this an official ruling to be implemented straight away

I like how it's been all these years. Don't change it.

 

[Vormaerin]

I think maintaining backwards compatibility with previous Traveller material where there is no good reason not to is better. Either way, some % of the referees are going to house rule it.

 

[Omnipresent]

The bwaap are the real weak ones but I love my star-fairing Geico Lizards

 

[Condottiere]

Roleplaying is choosing the race despite it's weaknesses.

I find gnomes fascinating.

 

[GypsyComet]

2. So, why didn't the Solomani uplift dogs?

There is other-edition evidence that the Solomani have *tinkered* with canids, including some intelligence boosts. Whether that, or other projects off screen, qualifies as "uplift" is Secrets of the Campaign territory.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[ottarrus]

Well, let's not forget that the Vilani and Solomani varieties of Humaniti have interbred extensively. While there are a lot of cultural Vilani, the OTU has repeatedly said that that are comparatively few genetically 'pure' Vilani remaining.
But there are lots of sub-species in print. Mongoose has published Syleans, Suerrat, Jonkeerin, and Geonee and that's just the ones off the top of my head.