The Vorlon Ships

[herdleader]

why is the Lightning Cannon of the Victory so much better than the Vorlon "original",even that on the Heavy Cruiser?),
..

The lightning cannon of the Victory is not neccessarily better than the Vorlon's. The Victory's cannon is boresighted while the Vorlon has a F arc. This reduces the number of targets you can have available. In addition the Victory can only fire it's cannon every other turn (and be a sitting duck while recharging!!) where the Vorlons can fire every turn. The only advantage the Victory's cannon has is it's greater range : 30 inches compared to the Vorlon's 24 inches.

 

[Balance]

why is the Lightning Cannon of the Victory so much better than the Vorlon "original",even that on the Heavy Cruiser?),
..

Perhaps it's better because you can get one in, say, 2270, whereas the Vorlons have stopped returning phone calls?

 

[MustEatBrains]

The only advantage the Victory's cannon has is it's greater range : 30 inches compared to the Vorlon's 24 inches.

Well, that´s quite an advantage actually, I think - in direct comparison, the Victory is more likely to get of an extra shot before the Vorlon comes into range (ships that go "boom" after the first volley - not unlikely with the 8AD - don´t fire back after all).

I also have a small fluff-related problem with the reduced AD, since the Lightning cannon on the Victory should be pretty equal to the one used by the Vorlons, only that the ISA power sources aren´t advanced enough to power it adequately - the Vorlons shouln´t have that problem with their main weapon, thus being able to use the self-same weapon every turn...

8AD at 30" may be a little over the top, though, but giving the Heavy Cruiser 6 AD with the given range of 24, and expending the light Cruiser´s 4AD to a 24" range would capture the background more accurately, I think (AND it would enable the Light Cruiser to better fulfill it´s role as a gunship), without making the ships unbeatable... this would also reduce the (too?) heavy disadvantages of the limited firing arc and maneuvrability, since WHEN (and as long as) the cruisers get to fire at something, the will leave quite an impression

A thougt on the damage system: I think the table for causing damage on Ancients ships actually works pretty well; only the Double and Triple damage effects should be reduced - like reducing DD to "one-an-a-half" damag, and TD to DD, or something similar...

EDIT: BTW, I am NOT a full-time Vorlon player myself, just in case I sound like wanting to make my own fleet more effective - but as things are, I rather miss the "Oh hell, I´m being attacked by Vorlons - VORLONS, for God´s sake" feeling I´d expect when fighting a First One fleet...

 

[frobisher]

I also have a small fluff-related problem with the reduced AD, since the Lightning cannon on the Victory should be pretty equal to the one used by the Vorlons, only that the ISA power sources aren´t advanced enough to power it adequately - the Vorlons shouln´t have that problem with their main weapon, thus being able to use the self-same weapon every turn...

Alternatively, the ISA got a bit over zealous with building theirs. If you compare the size of the horns on the Vorlon Cruiser to the wings of the Victory, they are a lot smaller. The ISA varient is much, much bigger. The Vorlons wouldn't build theirs that big because of the excessive power drain...

I'd pondered this before when coming up for stats for B5Wars. Basically, to match up to the known performance of the system (ie superior to the forward fire power of a Whitestar) it actually had to have superior damage to the Vorlon Cruiser (by about 50% in fact).

 

[Garret]

I totally wanted to get in on this since it's been like a month or two since I complained about my beloved Vorlons.

In the intervening time I've been playing ISA, Narn, Vree, EA and Shadows. and, I've won with them all, at least once. Meanwhile, I'm still 0/10000000 with the Vorlons.

And if you happen to be contemplating a Shadow/Vorlon fight, dont do it. two hits from the Molecular Slicer on the shadow ship will, on average, kill a light cruiser.

Cant wait for tournament rules. maybe Sky Captain there will finally let me pull the vorlons out for some party time.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Just played with mine (for the first time) last Friday night. Some fleets require a number of ships to balance out their force, to make up for their various weak points. Though I'm not sure I'd use the word "weak" in relation to any of the Ancient races. Vorlon ships have that near fatal vulnerability of the forward only firing arc. Combined with their less than stellar turn radius it lessens the impact of their weapons. With enough ships, you can layer the force to cover, overlay your area of impact. In small numbers, Vorlon ships are more vulnerable. The light cruiser is a bit on the lame side. The heavy cruiser is formidable with support and the destroyer class vessal is great, especially in large numbers. Any fleet suffers when it only has three classes of ship. This is probably the Vorlon and Shadow fleets failing.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Of course this whole debate get's reset in e2, and from the looks of this thread most of what was said was a long time before we knew about e2 at all.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well you see the problem here is that if you note the dates, this is in fact a VERY old thread, the Vorlon list as it is today is actually quite different to the one this thread was originally talking about, back then, the Vorlon's WERE weak, their ships had about half the hitpoints they do currently and about half the firepower as well, still suffered from the same restricted fire arcs and didnt have the anti fighter pulse they do now.

The CURRENT Vorlon list (I'm talking Armageddon here as I dont have 2nd ed. yet) is very strong, some people even think it's TOO strong (I disagree here, I think it's about right)

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Yet to use e2 Vorlons, however their damage problems have been resolved, their ranges have increased and some of their weapons are even more powerful than Armageddon, so overall I'd have to say they are unlikely to be the candyfloss opponants they used to be.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Well you see the problem here is that if you note the dates, this is in fact a VERY old thread, the Vorlon list as it is today is actually quite different to the one this thread was originally talking about, back then, the Vorlon's WERE weak, their ships had about half the hitpoints they do currently and about half the firepower as well, still suffered from the same restricted fire arcs and didnt have the anti fighter pulse they do now.

The CURRENT Vorlon list (I'm talking Armageddon here as I dont have 2nd ed. yet) is very strong, some people even think it's TOO strong (I disagree here, I think it's about right)

Hmmm? I'm looking at the changes now... yep, they got better, but my primary complaint, concerning manueverablility, still remains. Priority levels climbed up as well (as is appropriate). Now you get fewer ships.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Looks to me like the Vorlons are reasonably agile now, most have either a 90 degree turn or two 45 degree turns. Not bad at all.

 

[Da Boss]

Well you see the problem here is that if you note the dates, this is in fact a VERY old thread, the Vorlon list as it is today is actually quite different to the one this thread was originally talking about, back then, the Vorlon's WERE weak, their ships had about half the hitpoints they do currently and about half the firepower as well, still suffered from the same restricted fire arcs and didnt have the anti fighter pulse they do now.

The CURRENT Vorlon list (I'm talking Armageddon here as I dont have 2nd ed. yet) is very strong, some people even think it's TOO strong (I disagree here, I think it's about right)

Hmmm? I'm looking at the changes now... yep, they got better, but my primary complaint, concerning manueverablility, still remains. Priority levels climbed up as well (as is appropriate). Now you get fewer ships.

Not sure what you mean - 90 degree turns and 2 45 degree turns not manueverable? On come about some ships are as manuevarble as a White Star!

The transport went down in priority and the others stayed the same - longer range guns and now nasty fighters.

 

[Burger]

Indeed, Vorlon ships are (and always have been) more manouverable than most other races equivalent PL ships. I don't know where people get the idea that Vorlons lack manouverability.

 

[Locutus9956]

Theres more to manueverability than just being able to move your ships, it's about bringing your weapons to bear, because Vorlons are limited to one, generally relatively short ranged (for the PL) weapon they have a reasonably tricky time bringing their weapons to bear.

The other major factor in their percieved lack of maneuverability is that people tend to compare them to the shadows and by their standards Vorlons ARE unmaneuverable.

 

[Da Boss]

I dont recall them being short ranged now!

 

[CZuschlag]

Depending on what the changes to All Stop and Pivot! are now, the Vorlons might be the race in the game that is MOST likely to get a gun to bear. With their range advantage, it may even be more likely that they'll get a shot than the Shadows.I don't have the new rule book, but in the preview, it was spectacularly easy for Vorlons to get full salvoes with All Stop and Pivot.....