The Imperial Uber-state (seperated from BD thread)

[kristof65]

Rather than derail the Battle Dress thread further, I decided this deserves it's own thread.

This is one of the things I don't get, why do many people try to make the Imperium in to the Uber-state? Making law that the Imperium can not enforce. Outside of some basic strictures planets are self governing and for the most part free to deal with their internal population as they see fit. Free to deal with other local planets as pretty much sovereign nation states. Within the limits of their membership of the Imperium.

As I said before the Imperium allows armed ships, Heck private Navies within it's borders, Battledress is a very minor issue once that is considered.

Speaking from personal experience, I'm thinking it's because most people only have experience with basically one region of laws. Even if they are someone who has moved around a lot, they're probably only aware of the subtleties of differences in laws where they've directly been impacted by them.

If anyone wants a good example of how laws can vary widely, even in a country that has a pretty good common reference for law, one only needs to take a look at the United States, and various federal and regional gun laws - not only for current times, but going back to the founding fathers. Right now, even in today's "enlightened" times, the gun laws between California, Florida, Colorado, Texas and Louisiana have some pretty major differences.

IMO, the post-civil war period of the US is a great era to model the Imperium's governmental control on. In the "civilized" regions of the US - the Eastern Seaboard, law and order was pretty consistant. But in the wild west, get too far from a town, and things were very different - not to mention the fact that local law enforcement in towns could vary widely in what they'd tolerate, regardless of the federal laws.

 

[AKAramis]

An example of this difference: in most states, discharged violent felons may never own firearms again. Some states do not permit any discharged felons to own a weapon, even when unconditionally discharged. Alaska permits discharged felons to possess a single longarm (Rifle or Shotgun) for hunting purposes.

In another case: In Alaska, a parent may spank a child, provided no mark is left that lasts more than a few minutes, and only a hand is used. Florida, only a school principal may spank a child; that probably due to an oversight, since it was in a different section of law from the abuse statutes.

It's very interesting to compare NY, FL, TX, and AK law; each is very different

 

[kristof65]

It's very interesting to compare NY, FL, TX, and AK law; each is very different

And you're only talking about 4 states. Compare all 50, and each state has it's own unique combinations, despite a common Federal framework. Drill down further, and each municipality in those states further diversifies things. To further the point, take a look at medical marijuana laws - many states and cities have medical marijuana laws that are technically in violation of federal laws - one of the reasons they get away with this is because the feds rely on local law enforcement to enforce many of their laws.

When I look at the 11,000 worlds of the 3rd Imperium, I can't help but think about how diverse things must be.

Like TL, Traveller's abstract Law Level really isn't detailed enough to be anything more than a starting point. I've come to use it as a standard frame of reference, and I try and make each world unique by giving them their own quirks in laws as well as tech and other things.

 

[AKAramis]

Ah... weed...

The state of AK decriminalized marijuana. Then we recriminalized it. But most local law enforcement won't enforce it. So it's neither legal, nor punished. Anchorage issued an enforcement ban to its officers, which basically reinstituted the decriminalization limits of 1oz on person and 4oz in home, max 2 bags.

And the feds run a medical marijana program as well. A friend of mine used to get cans of marijuana cigarettes, premade, 100ct per tin, manufactured by RJ Reynolds Tobacco. Delivered from some government agency in DC via the USPS.

 

[Alexander Cecil]

Like TL, Traveller's abstract Law Level really isn't detailed enough to be anything more than a starting point. I've come to use it as a standard frame of reference, and I try and make each world unique by giving them their own quirks in laws as well as tech and other things.

To help with this, I separated out each of the "common contraband" columns found in the main book's world generation section. Based upon the government type, the "common contaband" is banned at Law Level. Each other category of contraband is individually banned at (Law Level - 1d6).

My sector has worlds where firearms and information are under strict limits, but narcotics can be found in vending machines at bars. Some worlds have virtual control over all information and population movements, but the populace is routinely armed with high-tech firearms.

It's given a good deal of flavor to the individual worlds in my sector.

 

[phild]

I think there are likely to be differences between Imperial Law and State Law (where state probably represents an individual planet). The key emphasis of Imperial Law is going to be maintaining the legal, administration and juridical framework that allows trade and mutual protection across a union of several thousand systems. Once you've determined what the purposes of a specific legal system is, you can start to formulate what some of the laws might be (or at least the areas of governance over which the laws would seek to hold sway).

Thus, it strikes me, Imperial laws should focus on regulation of shipping, control of threats to its internal structure and the administration of a consistent and universal trading empire. If it were *my* Imperium, the first thing I would do is introduce a letter of marque system, so that only ships with such a letter would be allowed to be armed. Clearly, in regions like the spinward marches, letters would be granted more freely than in Regina. Now such a system can only operate if, in turn, traders have confidence in the strength and ubiquity of the Imperial Navy. So, much like the British Empire which I think has the strongest similarities with the Imperium, the emphasis on defence spending would be vastly over-weighted towards the Navy: you don't need an Army or even Marines if you've shot them out of the sky before they get anywere. Other laws would focus on the integrity of the banking system, ensuring that the credit was recognised and so on and so forth.

On the flip side, criminal law, family law (marriage, child custody), property laws and so forth have no real impact on the Imperium, except on such grand principles as child labour, owning of sophonts and recognising the right for imperial citizens not to be unlawfully deprived of their property. In this regard, another good model for what Imperium law would look like is the EU: laws that uphold broad principles such as human rights that all (or the majority) of member states believe should be universally adopted; and laws that are enablers of free and efficient trade.

 

[AndrewW]

Clearly, in regions like the spinward marches, letters would be granted more freely than in Regina.

Did you mean another area? Regina is in the Spinward Marches...

 

[phild]

Clearly, in regions like the spinward marches, letters would be granted more freely than in Regina.

Did you mean another area? Regina is in the Spinward Marches...

Yup, I meant Capital. I'm just an idiot!