The Brivoki

[Greg Smith]

Well since there is going to be some of the playtest rules in S&P, everyone will be able to look at them in advance, try them out and pick out any problems.

 

[H]

I hope you got your flak vest ready, well, you and the other 7 or so playtesters

 

[Greg Smith]

Yeah. I'm expecting a veritable barrage. Heck, we playtesters are still furiously debating some of the rules.

I guess seven of us forgot their flak vests, cos we are three now.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Though I'm not in a position to do so at this time, what does one have to do in order to become a play tester? Three seems very... small a test group.

While I do have a commitment when I return to the states (there is this 'Wrath of the Lich King' that is in need of some serious beta testing...), once I get a group together to push little ships around, I would love to take a crack at making ACtA better!

 

[B_Steele]

There are also some unofficial playtesters that work for the company.

Not that I'm naming names or anything.

-Bry

 

[H]

Though I'm not in a position to do so at this time, what does one have to do in order to become a play tester? Three seems very... small a test group.

While I do have a commitment when I return to the states (there is this 'Wrath of the Lich King' that is in need of some serious beta testing...), once I get a group together to push little ships around, I would love to take a crack at making ACtA better!

I suppose you could apply to Matt. Greg stated only 3 playtesters which I think is a little poor at present. There was once a second group of tier 2 guys whose job was to blat over and spot anything glaring rather than do full on playtesting. I think we got nominated by other testers?

 

[Greg Smith]

Though I'm not in a position to do so at this time, what does one have to do in order to become a play tester?

The playtesters were hand-picked by Matt. Many of us are tournament winners, are knowledgable about the rules, are extremely knowledgeble about the show and have done work for AoG on B5 Wars (although I don't think any of us can claim all of the above ).

Three is a small number, but we each have groups of players. Also if 10 playtesters worked on the second edition, 3 is hopefully sufficiant for a much smaller book.

 

[CZuschlag]

I would suggest that, given the balance issues on several ships (Demos), the fail that is the breakdown chart, and the wholesale disaster that was Gaim v1.0, that those 10 did not appear to have been either

A). wholly used to their fullest utility

or

B). correctly selected

or

C). nearly sufficient.

I consider which of the above is correct to be an open question.

 

[katadder]

alot of the playtesters from 2e were not contributing to P&P so that is why the cutbacks. perhaps after P&P it will increase again for whatever is next. and its not just 3 playtesters, its 3 focal points.
plus as greg says alot of stuff makes S&P so it is actually playtested by the wider forum as a whole.

 

[Ripple]

First point

Abbai version should have a better shield regen rate. Yes they have manuals, but I doubt they gave away the first line stuff or the expert techs. That said, I'd almost rather they just gave over some damn fighters and not have abbai fighters on the damn thing.

Seriously, from a fluff perspective, the abbai would never put sentient beings in those awful kotha... not even condemned criminals deserve to die THAT way.

Second point

If both Abbai and Brakiri are getting something in the next book, it will be a wash and you'll have your same problem. I've always said that balancing fighters by having different numbers per wing was a horrid idea... as this situation was bound to develop. (ie trying to trade out one type of fighter for another when the costs don't match.)

Third point

Playtest... too many testers would be bad, but you really need to make sure you have five or six different groups to hit a number of play styles.

Ripple

 

[l33tpenguin]

First point

Abbai version should have a better shield regen rate. Yes they have manuals, but I doubt they gave away the first line stuff or the expert techs. That said, I'd almost rather they just gave over some damn fighters and not have abbai fighters on the damn thing.

Its not so much even being manuals as its just a function of the ships coming out of the ship yards. More than likely there is a single shipyard producing these ships. It is, after all, a MASSIVE vessel and requires a lot of support just to construct one. The Abbai and Brakiri would be building them in one location, combining their assets jointly. It seems odd, then, that every other ship rolling off the assembly line would have a better grade shield generator.

The playtesters were hand-picked by Matt. Many of us are tournament winners, are knowledgable about the rules, are extremely knowledgeble about the show and have done work for AoG on B5 Wars (although I don't think any of us can claim all of the above ).

Three is a small number, but we each have groups of players. Also if 10 playtesters worked on the second edition, 3 is hopefully sufficiant for a much smaller book.

Not to demean the playtesters ability to...well, playtest, but it would seem to me that a more... 'open ended' play testing approach might be beneficial. Not to say go nuts and invite anyone who trolls the forums, but to include a wider player base allows for more oddities and unbalanced mechanics to be discovered. I've done beta testing on computer games before, where you sometimes have thousands of others looking for problems in a system. Some players do some really retarded things that happen to break the rules. Its a matter of having enough people to do enough retarded things to break down the system.

 

[locarno24]

It seems odd, then, that every other ship rolling off the assembly line would have a better grade shield generator.

The generator would be identical. However.....
The shield is more than just an inert bubble that sits there and takes it, according to the description - it's an active defence, more like a real shield than a star trek shield. Abbai crews would be better at using it.

So an identical shield trait (same capacity & recharge rate) but an innate abbai special rule that affects shields would work fairly well.

In a similar manner, the hangars are identical - but both sides fly their primary fighter off it. Which is falkosi for the Brakiri and kotha for the Abbai.





On that note, by the way, I've seen a few versions (I know in Darkness Rising and I think in a couple of other places) where the kotha is an unmanned drone. Given the attritional nature of fighter combat, that makes sense for Abbai, and fits the general awfulness of the fighter in dodging and dogfighting.

 

[Da Boss]

re the Brivoki

Kotha as Drones I have always liked

If not then I don't see why having Falkosi's would be a problem - the Abbai IIRC are quite happy to employ other races - and a specalist fighter squadron or two to defend the flagship/s makes sense. In game terms would need a way to replace them I suppose...........

I suppose that it may be seen as a odd to have aliens on your preimer warships even dispite this but it could be initially Brakiri (or other Alien pilots) who train up Abbai pilots?

Given the usefulness of decent fighters against the Drakh it would seem they should start looking into upgrading their fighters - the other alternative in this theme is the heavy assault fighters in Hiffanos supplement? 3 or 4 of them on the brioki would be nasty

 

[H]

which incidentally for those who have not read the supplement are.
(this was a Riva varient)

Patha Heavy Fighter Patrol (3 flights//wing)
The Patha was only the second fighter to enter Abbai service. Unlike the much maligned Kotha, the Patha was a purchased Brakiri hull, never intended to dogfight, it was designed to destroy the much heavier raiders employed by the Drakh. It stripped out the Brakiri weapons, and employed the Quad Bolters. It had to be carried into battle on external hardpoints, the Milani being too small to house it.

Speed:: 7 Damage:: - Dogffight:: -2
Turns:: SM Crew:: - Craft:: -
Hull:: 5 Troops:: - Special Rules:: - Fighter, Dodge 5+,
Shields 1/1
Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Quad Bolters 4 T 3 AP, Double Damage

 

[Da Boss]

hmm nice - given its carried on external hard points it could be carried as well as the Falkosi ! :wink:

 

[H]

it was external on the Milani, I believe the Brivoki is large enough to take 4 of them internally.

 

[Greg Smith]

If both Abbai and Brakiri are getting something in the next book, it will be a wash and you'll have your same problem.

The Abbai abilities are intended as a balancing factor for the fleet and are much more useful than the Brakiri one, so it should not be a problem.

 

[Burger]

Since the slightly better fighters on the Brakiri Brivoki are such a small advantage ove the Abbai one, won't that make the Abbai Brivoki much better than the Brakiri one in P&P??

 

[H]

new can of worms ready for opening Mr Burger sir.

 

[Greg Smith]

Possibly, but you also have to take into account the Brakiri fleet has a better initiative bonus.

Alternatively, It has a complex Abbai Shield system. Would the Brakiri have the know how to keep one working, would a way to balance this ship be to drop the recharge to 1D6 to show a lack of Brakiri understanding

Since the slightly better fighters on the Brakiri Brivoki are such a small advantage ove the Abbai one

So one person things the current imbalance is very small, while another thinks it needs fixing. I suspect the changes will not satisfy everyone.