Supplement: Ship ideas wanted

[Methos5000]

Just skimmed through it real quick, will take a closer look later, but it seems the Divine Omega might be a bit OTT for a War choice. Hull 6 with 75 points of Damage with AA AND 1D6 Self-repair plus a 6AD Quad Damage Precise Beam seems a bit much when you compare it to other war level choices. Compared to the Vorlon War choice it has 20 points more damage(roughly 40 more with AA), has DD Precise all around fire power, has interceptors and is hull 6 to boot. The ship actually is closer to Armageddon level just from its damage and crew when you factor in AA.

My intention was to make a Vorlon-ized version of the Omega Destroyer.
Based on the Shadow Omega. Stats are very similar. Please if got idea on how i can make Vorlonized omega, please share. Iam trying to stay in the War priority. I tried to balance the lighting gun by cutting it range and making it a bore arc. remember iam comparing to the shadow omega, not vorlon light cruiser, witch i admit is weak. But the shadow omega would eaten the Vorlon light cruiser for breakfast too.

And katadder
soory didn't know about your EAS Titan (finally got a copy earth-centauri war)
made Divine Omega at home just looking at Fleet list book, looking at the Shadow Omega and replacing its shadow tech with vorlon tech. don't know why your titan is a Armageddon ship? Looks like what i was intending. Hey if you got any ideas how i can make a Vorlon Omega thats war level please post it. thank you

All comments are welcome

Its stats end up being quite different though. Keeping the Damage and Crew scores the same and then adding AA is a massive upgrade. Look at all the other ships that have AA they have much less less damage and crew then other ships of the same level and are hull 5 (the Victory is the exception because it doesn't really have AA it was just given that trait because there wasn't one to reflect how its armor actually works). You would need to drop the damage and crew scores to compensate for AA.

The super lightning cannon is another big upgrade. I haven't seen the stats for the EAS Titan so maybe the EA did finally produce a power plant big enough, but the Lightning cannon on the Victory would shut the whole ship down for a turn. A ship that can normally move at speed 10 while firing 10AD of TD precise beams, 12 AD of fusion cannons and 20 AD of Heavy pulse cannons. That is a huge power requirement. To be able to fire 6AD of Quad Damage and a total of 32 AD DD, precise weapons every turn seems too much for a War choice when an Armageddon level ship isn't capable of doing that. Plus remember the Shadow Omega's main weapon was Triple damage not Quad damage.

If you lowered its damage and crew scores and maybe changed the Super Lightning Cannon to a Light Lightning Cannon (same stats except TD instead of QD, to reflect lack of technological understanding or a way to deal with the power issue) the ship will be a lot more in line with other War choices. It might even need to be changed to hull 5. If you are adding Vorlon bio-armor to the ships (like the Whitestars and various WS classes of ships) then that type of armor is hull 5. If you want to say they got some of the armor from the Vorlons and designed their own armor technology (like the Victory) then you can probably keep it hull 6(but then it would probably lose Self repair as the Victory's armor is unable to repair itself it not living bio-tech stuff like the Vorlons use). Either way the Damage and Crew score has to drop.

 

[Cavalier1645]

Its stats end up being quite different though. Keeping the Damage and Crew scores the same and then adding AA is a massive upgrade. Look at all the other ships that have AA they have much less less damage and crew then other ships of the same level and are hull 5 (the Victory is the exception because it doesn't really have AA it was just given that trait because there wasn't one to reflect how its armor actually works). You would need to drop the damage and crew scores to compensate for AA.

The super lightning cannon is another big upgrade. I haven't seen the stats for the EAS Titan so maybe the EA did finally produce a power plant big enough, but the Lightning cannon on the Victory would shut the whole ship down for a turn. A ship that can normally move at speed 10 while firing 10AD of TD precise beams, 12 AD of fusion cannons and 20 AD of Heavy pulse cannons. That is a huge power requirement. To be able to fire 6AD of Quad Damage and a total of 32 AD DD, precise weapons every turn seems too much for a War choice when an Armageddon level ship isn't capable of doing that. Plus remember the Shadow Omega's main weapon was Triple damage not Quad damage.

If you lowered its damage and crew scores and maybe changed the Super Lightning Cannon to a Light Lightning Cannon (same stats except TD instead of QD, to reflect lack of technological understanding or a way to deal with the power issue) the ship will be a lot more in line with other War choices. It might even need to be changed to hull 5. If you are adding Vorlon bio-armor to the ships (like the Whitestars and various WS classes of ships) then that type of armor is hull 5. If you want to say they got some of the armor from the Vorlons and designed their own armor technology (like the Victory) then you can probably keep it hull 6(but then it would probably lose Self repair as the Victory's armor is unable to repair itself it not living bio-tech stuff like the Vorlons use). Either way the Damage and Crew score has to drop.[/quote]
Thank you Methos ill implement some changes and post it changes

 

[Cavalier1645]

Some Changes to my list

Retribution-Class Advanced Destroyer (Nemesis Variant) Armageddon
Consider the crowning achievement of blending Vorlon and Earth tech. The Retribution is match almost anything else in the galaxy.


Speed: 9 Damage: 95/18
Turn: 1/45 Crew: 105/20 Craft: 4 Angelfury Flights
Hull: 6 Troops: 3 Special Rules: Adaptive Armor, Advanced Jump Engine, Anti-Fighter 8, Flight Computer, Interceptors 6, Self-Repair 2d6
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Super Lightning Cannon*** 30 B 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Discharge Gun 24 F 10 Beam DD, Precise
Light Discharge Gun 12 P 12 DD, Precise
Light Discharge Gun 12 S 12 DD, Precise
Light Discharge Gun 12 A 8 DD, Precise
Advanced Missile Rack 30 F 6 Precise, SL**, Super AP

* The Retribution has a HEL track array, granting it a +1 bonus to all attempts to break through a target’s Stealth
** This weapon ignores the Slow-Loading trait unless the Retribution is Crippled
***While the Psi Corp has manage to solve some power problems by estinally building a Vorlon ship, the lack of superior Vorlon construction facilities produced a flaw in the power systems. The Retribution cannot fire any other weapons on the same turn it fires its Super Lightning Cannon.

 

[katadder]

And katadder
soory didn't know about your EAS Titan (finally got a copy earth-centauri war)
made Divine Omega at home just looking at Fleet list book, looking at the Shadow Omega and replacing its shadow tech with vorlon tech. don't know why your titan is a Armageddon ship? Looks like what i was intending. Hey if you got any ideas how i can make a Vorlon Omega thats war level please post it. thank you

All comments are welcome

its armageddon because it takes a warlock, gives it AA and SR as well as increases the beam to QD and has DD mini beams all round.

you could do similar for an omega at war but obviously less mini-beams and TD main beam as people have said. also the titans powers the lightning cannon easily through having the vorlon ship grow into the EA hull. obviously earth hasnt managed that as they didnt with the victory.

looking at your nemesis variant - 16 dice of beam - isnt that a bit much for quad damage and dd precise beams? ok the victory has similar but if it fires its QD beam it cant do anything for a whole turn after as well as having the same drawbacks as your nemesis in the turn it fires it. even on an armageddon ship thats going too far. you have taken the weapons from the vorlon HC then added missiles, secondaries, more damage, fighters etc etc. lose the discharge gun and its not too bad.

again with your judegemental class ship - its a hunter experimental but with QD beam and AA instead of TD beam. bit much. basically getting upgrades with no downsides on all shadowtech EA ships.

 

[kitsune106]

Okay, side track:
Rangers.

Yes, they will be active. Minbari and Earth will ahve Rangers since the destruction of Earth, to search fro EArths killers. So a mixture of earth and human tech. Also, a band of rogue vorlons will be helping the Rangers, trying to put an end ot the war in later years, so they can have the whitestar, or something like it. Any ideas for the Rangers, Feel free.

 

[katadder]

independance class has too low damage. be better off with victory damage/crew.
minuteman chronos has gone too far. same AD secondaries as normal chronos, AP replaces the TL but it gains DD as well.
red october - glass hammer, but basically a warlock with another beam tacked on. dunno about this one as it will die real easy but has alot of beams.

 

[Cavalier1645]

independance class has too low damage. be better off with victory damage/crew.
minuteman chronos has gone too far. same AD secondaries as normal chronos, AP replaces the TL but it gains DD as well.
red october - glass hammer, but basically a warlock with another beam tacked on. dunno about this one as it will die real easy but has alot of beams.

Ok lol....
the Independence was suppose to have the Victory's damage and Crew
thats a miss type there.

Minuteman ill look over again, ill look about cutiing down the number of Ad for its plasma cannons, and replace railgun with missile rack.

Red October fine with me, Glass Hammer ok.. No body perfect

 

[Cavalier1645]

And katadder
soory didn't know about your EAS Titan (finally got a copy earth-centauri war)
made Divine Omega at home just looking at Fleet list book, looking at the Shadow Omega and replacing its shadow tech with vorlon tech. don't know why your titan is a Armageddon ship? Looks like what i was intending. Hey if you got any ideas how i can make a Vorlon Omega thats war level please post it. thank you

All comments are welcome

its armageddon because it takes a warlock, gives it AA and SR as well as increases the beam to QD and has DD mini beams all round.

you could do similar for an omega at war but obviously less mini-beams and TD main beam as people have said. also the titans powers the lightning cannon easily through having the vorlon ship grow into the EA hull. obviously earth hasnt managed that as they didnt with the victory.

looking at your nemesis variant - 16 dice of beam - isnt that a bit much for quad damage and dd precise beams? ok the victory has similar but if it fires its QD beam it cant do anything for a whole turn after as well as having the same drawbacks as your nemesis in the turn it fires it. even on an armageddon ship thats going too far. you have taken the weapons from the vorlon HC then added missiles, secondaries, more damage, fighters etc etc. lose the discharge gun and its not too bad.

again with your judegemental class ship - its a hunter experimental but with QD beam and AA instead of TD beam. bit much. basically getting upgrades with no downsides on all shadowtech EA ships.

Ok my Retribution can no longer fire its main gun with conjuction of its secondary guns. will look into reducing it further (perhaps getting rid of discharge guns)

Yep Judgement class a little powerful
heres a adjustment. Drop hull down to 5 and made the Lighting gun and light version drop damage to TD.

Judgment-Class Experimental Warship Battle
The warship built by humans, which utilized Vorlon tech solely
Speed: 12 Damage: 40/8
Turn: 2/45 Crew: 45/9 Craft: 2 Angelfury Flights
Hull: 5 Troops: - Special Rules: Adaptive Armor Advanced Jump Engine, Anti-Fighter 4, Interceptors 1, Self Repair 2
In Service: 2259+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Light Lightning Cannon 20 F 5 Beam, Precise, Triple Damage

 

[stepan.razin]

Yep Judgement class a little powerful
heres a adjustment. Drop hull down to 5 and made the Lighting gun and light version drop damage to TD.

Judgment-Class Experimental Warship Battle
The warship built by humans, which utilized Vorlon tech solely
Speed: 12 Damage: 40/8
Turn: 2/45 Crew: 45/9 Craft: 2 Angelfury Flights
Hull: 5 Troops: - Special Rules: Adaptive Armor Advanced Jump Engine, Anti-Fighter 4, Interceptors 1, Self Repair 2
In Service: 2259+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Light Lightning Cannon 20 F 5 Beam, Precise, Triple Damage

Is this a War PL ship? Or is it a Shadow Hunter with an interceptor, AA, and a longer range (by 5"). but Hull 5, and no 3+ Stealth?

Skimming through your other stuff, it just feels a little over the top. A skirmish Hyperion with 18" DD beam and missiles that shoot every turn??? Your Apollo has 14 AD up front??

 

[Cavalier1645]

Yep Judgement class a little powerful
heres a adjustment. Drop hull down to 5 and made the Lighting gun and light version drop damage to TD.

Judgment-Class Experimental Warship Battle
The warship built by humans, which utilized Vorlon tech solely
Speed: 12 Damage: 40/8
Turn: 2/45 Crew: 45/9 Craft: 2 Angelfury Flights
Hull: 5 Troops: - Special Rules: Adaptive Armor Advanced Jump Engine, Anti-Fighter 4, Interceptors 1, Self Repair 2
In Service: 2259+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Light Lightning Cannon 20 F 5 Beam, Precise, Triple Damage

Is this a War PL ship? Or is it a Shadow Hunter with an interceptor, AA, and a longer range (by 5"). but Hull 5, and no 3+ Stealth?

Skimming through your other stuff, it just feels a little over the top. A skirmish Hyperion with 18" DD beam and missiles that shoot every turn??? Your Apollo has 14 AD up front??

Yep the judgement is a shadow hunter redone with vorlon tech, hence the changes. Its a battle level ship

The Hyperion was suppose to be a raid level ship(sorry made the list late night). Mars has no skirmish level Hyperion or any other Hyperion variants

As for the other ships, hey its fan made fleet list of course its not perfect, I was trying to make a EA Crusade thats not EA Crusade Fleet (A Mars Consortium Navy) if you got any ideas please feel free to make them.

 

[Cavalier1645]

Skimming through your other stuff, it just feels a little over the top. A skirmish Hyperion with 18" DD beam and missiles that shoot every turn??? Your Apollo has 14 AD up front??

Ok revisions

Bunker Hill-Class Heavy Cruiser (Hyperion Variant) Raid
A reworking of the Earth Hyperion, the Bunker Hill can engage ships that traditionally out range Hyperion.

Speed: 8 Damage: 28/6
Turn: 2/45 Crew: 32/6 Craft: 1 Aurora Starfury Flights
Hull: 5 Troops: 3 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 2, Interceptors 2, Jump Engine,
In Service: 2252+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 18 B 4 Beam, Double-Damage
Heavy Laser Cannon 18 B(a) 2 Beam, Double-Damage
Advanced Missile Rack 30 F 4 Precise, SL*, Super AP
Medium Pulse Cannon 10 A 2 ----
Medium Pulse Cannon 10 P 8 ----
Medium Pulse Cannon 10 S 8 ----

Katyusha Class Bombardment Cruiser (Apollo Variant) Battle
A Martian Reworking of the Apollo.

Speed: 7 Damage: 38/8
Turn: 1/45 Crew: 46/9 Craft: None
Hull: 6 Troops: 2 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 4, Interceptors 3, Jump Engine,
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Advanced Missile Rack 30 F 10 Precise, SL*, Super AP
Advanced Missile Rack 30 A 2 Precise, SL*, Super AP
Advanced Missile Rack 30 P 4 Precise, SL*, Super AP
Advanced Missile Rack 30 S 4 Precise, SL*, Super AP

*These Weapons ignore the Slow-Loading trait unless the Katyusha is Crippled

Minuteman class Attack Frigate (Chronos Variant) Skirmish
The Martian variant of the Earth Alliance Chronos attack frigate.

Speed: 8 Damage: 16/3
Turn: 2/45 Crew: 18/5 Craft: None
Hull: 6 Troops: 2 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 2, Interceptors 2,
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Advanced Missile Rack 30 T 4 Precise, SL**, Super AP
Heavy Plasma Cannon 10 F 1 AP, Double Damage
Heavy Plasma Cannon 10 A 1 AP, Double Damage
Heavy Plasma Cannon 10 P 2 AP, Double Damage
Heavy Plasma Cannon 10 S 2 AP, Double Damage

* These Weapons ignore the Slow-Loading trait unless the Minuteman is Crippled

 

[katadder]

the railguns were fine on the minuteman. having 30" missiles instead may be a bit much. personally on my chronos variant I put them at 20" range with no variants allowed, but others said this was still too much so go figure.

 

[kitsune106]

Nice ships. will ahve ot think.

Okay, new challenge,

how shoudl the new Dilgar ships be like?

I was thinking of a geg system for them, so not true vorlony with AA. lesser AA, but with the AA. asborbing some firepower, but not all of it. maybe no beams , or only mini beams? and most likely MoD woudl remain. Am curious to see what others think.

 

[Da Boss]

it guess it needs to be decided - if they are organic, partially organic or not at all

guessing main weapons are beams perhaps with heavy duty missiles and bolters for that overkill factor.

how about lots of small fast (with agile and dodge) ships and a couple of big dreadnoughts with swarms of fighters - sort of like a ISA fleet in many ways - no AA armour though.........

so Patrol (Blue Star stylee), Skirmish (larger version), Raid - fast attack (WStar),
Battle - command ship, carrier variant and perhaps L/R Bombardment ship
War - Battleship - large beam and bolter equipped nightmare
Armged - Unique command ship perhaps

 

[kitsune106]

it guess it needs to be decided - if they are organic, partially organic or not at all

guessing main weapons are beams perhaps with heavy duty missiles and bolters for that overkill factor.

how about lots of small fast (with agile and dodge) ships and a couple of big dreadnoughts with swarms of fighters - sort of like a ISA fleet in many ways - no AA armour though.........

so Patrol (Blue Star stylee), Skirmish (larger version), Raid - fast attack (WStar),
Battle - command ship, carrier variant and perhaps L/R Bombardment ship
War - Battleship - large beam and bolter equipped nightmare
Armged - Unique command ship perhaps

Certainly one way of doing it. Wonder what they bluestar, or omelsos star would be like? I'm sure your mind can come up with somethign sufficently scary.

ALthough, am curious what would be used instead of AA?


And other people's ideas are still welcomed.

 

[Cavalier1645]

the railguns were fine on the minuteman. having 30" missiles instead may be a bit much. personally on my chronos variant I put them at 20" range with no variants allowed, but others said this was still too much so go figure.

It was my intention, that Mars military primary enemy (at least in Martian military minds) will be raiders and the Earth Alliance (Because in Mars mind Earth will some day come for them). Because they have Earth Tech to work (Because that all they have right now) with but striving to different from Earth (for Ideological or practical reasons). Some of Mars ships are design to work on Earth ships short comings (lack of range, Beam vs interceptors etc.) The minuteman tries that approach with a long range missile system to try out range the Earth chronos. With lack of short range weapons the minuteman will do poorly vs EA chronos in close combat.

I appreciate all you guys input on my ship list
It help me balance some my more crazy ideas and help fix some mistakes

Thanks kitsune106 and Tolywn for letting me flex my ship building mussle

Will start working on the other races

Thanks

Cav

 

[Cavalier1645]

Love them. Although, wonder how the narn would respond.

Heres a start on the Narn

The Na’Kal (Refited G’Lan-Class Cruiser) War

During the late part of the War of Retribution, The Narn Regeme open up negoation with Earth to purchace trechnology to equalized the battle against the centauri. The Narn where under the impression that Earth would be receptive to Narn after the Narn had provided weapons to Earth during the Earth-Minabri War and the fact that Earth was at war with the Drazi. Unfortunatly at first, Earth was hesitant to trade any technology to any alien power because of xenophobic backlash caused by destruction of Earth. The Narn offer massive amounts of money and intelligence on the Drazi for the interceptor grid. The Earth agreed to refit one of Narn Quan-Class Heavy Cruiser with an interceptor grid and provide engineers to maintain the system. The Narn instead sent a G’Lan class cruiser (named for Warleader Na’Kal) to Earth. The Humans installed the system and made some improvements to the ship (as well acquiring the secret of the Mag Laser). The ship finish its refit in just enough time to be use against the Centauri in lasts engagements of the War of Retribution . It performed well against the centauri, and the Narn were pleased with Earth interceptor system that they want more of them. Unfortunately, Earth had finish its war with Drazi and promptly withdrew into their own borders. They cancel any further shipments of the interceptor system and the parts to maintain them. They also withdrew all advisors and engineers working on the system. This left the Na’Kal as the only ship in the Narn Fleet with a Earth interceptor grid. The Na’Kal remains as part of the Narn’s Silver Fleet.


Speed: 6 Damage: 55/13
Turn: 1/45 Crew: 70/19 Craft: 2 Frazi Flights
Hull: 6 Troops: 6 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 4, Command +1, Flight Computer, Interceptors 2, Jump Engine, Lumbering, Unique
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Mag Gun 18 F 2 Beam, Triple Damage
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 4 Beam, Double Damage
Light Ion Cannon 8 F 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 A 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 P 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 S 10 Twin-Linked
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6 --

 

[Foxmeister]

The Na’Kal (Refited G’Lan-Class Cruiser) War

Speed: 6 Damage: 55/13
Turn: 1/45 Crew: 70/19 Craft: 2 Frazi Flights
Hull: 6 Troops: 6 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 4, Command +1, Flight Computer, Interceptors 2, Jump Engine, Lumbering, Unique
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Mag Gun 18 F 2 Beam, Triple Damage
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 4 Beam, Double Damage
Light Ion Cannon 8 F 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 A 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 P 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 S 10 Twin-Linked
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6 --

War???!!!????

It would only just make the grade as a Battle level hull.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Cavalier1645]

A couple question on Earth Force

How are technologically? Are they basically Third Age or Have they reach crusade era tech?

According to your storyline Earth is Isolationist and has not been yet suduce by Shadows or the Vorlons

This doesn't seem to effect Earth ability to create ships in crusade era with the following expections.

The Marathon Cruiser

The Victory Class Destroyer

Does Earth still (or will field) these ships?

My take is that only thing that would be missing from Marathon would be its medium Neutron Cannons (Neutron Cannons are Drakh tech). I guess in the case of a lack of them earth would probably installed Heavy Particle Cannon, just like they installed on the Warlock.

The Victory is probably impossibility, unless Earth loses it isolationist feelings. Hers what I think a Earth only Victory Would look like

Victory-Class Destroyer (AU Victory) Armageddon

Speed: 10 Damage: 100/16
Turn: 1/45 Crew: 110/20 Craft: 3 Aurora Starfury Flights, 3 Thunderbolt Flights
Hull: 6 Troops: 4 Special Rules: Advanced Jump Engines, Afterburner, Anti-Fighter 6, Carrier 2, Command +3, Flight Computer, Interceptors 6, Unique
In Service: 2261+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Particle Cannon 35 B 10 Beam, Triple Damage
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 8 Beam, DD,
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B(a) 6 Beam, DD,
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 T 20 Twin-Linked
Light Laser Cannon 15 T 10 Mini-Beam, Slow-Loading

 

[Cavalier1645]

The Na’Kal (Refited G’Lan-Class Cruiser) War

Speed: 6 Damage: 55/13
Turn: 1/45 Crew: 70/19 Craft: 2 Frazi Flights
Hull: 6 Troops: 6 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 4, Command +1, Flight Computer, Interceptors 2, Jump Engine, Lumbering, Unique
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Mag Gun 18 F 2 Beam, Triple Damage
Heavy Laser Cannon 30 B 4 Beam, Double Damage
Light Ion Cannon 8 F 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 A 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 P 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 S 10 Twin-Linked
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 6 --
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 6 --

War???!!!????

It would only just make the grade as a Battle level hull.

Regards,

Dave

Ah must count the Anti-Fighter 4, Command +1, Flight Computer, Interceptors 2, Heavy Laser Cannon over the standard G'Lan