Statisticals. What is 'Average'.

[bluejay]

One thing I really felt that D&D3E got right was the famous arm-wrestling contest: guys with the higher Strength simply win every time.

I go to a specialist powerlifting gym and there's a huge difference between raw strength and athletic ability. Sure you can train to get better at press-ups, chin-ups, handstands, etc. There is even some element of technique to bench press but for the most part it is sheer strength. I think this would need to be included more.

 

[soltakss]

Regarding the problems along the lines of "Can a STR 15 person carry a SIZ 16 person?", the simplest mechanism is to use Opposed rolls of Characteristicx5%.

So, STR 15 vs SIZ 16 requires an Opposed Roll of 75% vs 80%, using the standard Opposed Roll rules.

The same can apply for POW vs POW, DEX vs SIZ and even abstracted rolls such as Athletics vs SIZ for jumping across a ravine.

The Ravine has SIZ 20, I have Athletics 73%, so I need to make an opposed roll of 73% vs 100%.

Higher characteristics work out fairly nicely, as their equivalent rolls are above 100 and so the repeated halving rules come into play ...

STR 40 tries to lift SIZ 60, 200% vs 300%, 100% vs 150%, 50% vs 75% - easy peasy.

It's actually easier to use than the Resistance Table, although my players still like the Resistance Table ....

 

[soltakss]

Abstraction sucks because it doesn't give you a baseline to use when making judgements. How tall is Size 9? Can she (I have a female Acrobat as a test character) reach that shelf 1.83m (approx. 6ft) up above to get the magical pie, or will she need to climb to get it?

Well, if your character is SIZ 9 but is "tall and thin" then they will be a different height to SIZ 9 "short and fat", since you are an Acrobat, you would be "tall and thin" but being SIZ 9 that means "not very tall and thin".

You have to take into account body shapes as well as simple SIZ.

With non-humans it gets even better as they have their own body shapes. A dwarf, elf and trollkin of the same SIZ will be of different heights, the dwarf will be shorter (short and stout), the trollkin in the middle and the elf tallest. Unless, of course, you have a thin dwarf and a fat elf ....

It's probably worth making a note on your character sheet of your character's height and weight, in the same way you might note hair colour, eye colour and so on.

And ANYONE arguing what is or isn't in a medival society needs to look at the GM and have him/her put her foot down and give an answer. Because it's not a Medival Recreation game, it's RuneQuest and RuneQuest is NOT Earth.

Don't like it, play something else.

Well, it depends on where your game is set. Some people just give an adjustment to a SIZ chart to take into account that people were smaller back then. In a Paleolithic (Old Stone Age) setting, hunter-gatherers were taller than modern day humans, apparently, so the SIZ chart should be adjusted upwards.

If you play RuneQuest in an Earth setting, then RQ is Earth.

 

[King Amenjar]

One thing I really felt that D&D3E got right was the famous arm-wrestling contest: guys with the higher Strength simply win every time.

I go to a specialist powerlifting gym and there's a huge difference between raw strength and athletic ability. Sure you can train to get better at press-ups, chin-ups, handstands, etc. There is even some element of technique to bench press but for the most part it is sheer strength. I think this would need to be included more.

But this, of course, begs the question as to whether in doing all the stuff at the gym, you're increasing your Athletics skill or raising your STR characteristic...

 

[wartorn]

Regarding the problems along the lines of "Can a STR 15 person carry a SIZ 16 person?", the simplest mechanism is to use Opposed rolls of Characteristicx5%.

So, STR 15 vs SIZ 16 requires an Opposed Roll of 75% vs 80%, using the standard Opposed Roll rules.

The same can apply for POW vs POW, DEX vs SIZ and even abstracted rolls such as Athletics vs SIZ for jumping across a ravine.

The Ravine has SIZ 20, I have Athletics 73%, so I need to make an opposed roll of 73% vs 100%.

Higher characteristics work out fairly nicely, as their equivalent rolls are above 100 and so the repeated halving rules come into play ...

STR 40 tries to lift SIZ 60, 200% vs 300%, 100% vs 150%, 50% vs 75% - easy peasy.

It's actually easier to use than the Resistance Table, although my players still like the Resistance Table ....

That works but it throws out the idea that there is any skill involved in using your Characteristics; essentially the reverse of the problem of relying on Athletics skill for STR based contests. This is why I suggested the more complex system above. Begin with raw athletics, apply modifiers based on differences in stats, ignoring 5 points of difference to make play easier.

 

[Nagisawa]

I honestly don't care about the range of mass to hieght, I was looking for an average.

"At size 13 the average peon is 'this'."

Whether not you want to fiddle with it is up to you, but I would like to know what a size 9-13 person stands in relation to thir species.

Also Soltakss, a Trollkin, Dwarf and Elf WILL ALL be the same if they are at size 9. Because each of their races have an average, the Dwarf and Trollkin is at 9, whereas the Elf is a whopping 10. Implying that each of them have a differing mass/hieght

But for the most part I have what I want in the chart that atgxtg was nice enough to screen cap for me.

 

[atgxtg]

I honestly don't care about the range of mass to hieght, I was looking for an average.

"At size 13 the average peon is 'this'."

Whether not you want to fiddle with it is up to you, but I would like to know what a size 9-13 person stands in relation to thir species.

Also Soltakss, a Trollkin, Dwarf and Elf WILL ALL be the same if they are at size 9. Because each of their races have an average, the Dwarf and Trollkin is at 9, whereas the Elf is a whopping 10. Implying that each of them have a differing mass/hieght

But for the most part I have what I want in the chart that atgxtg was nice enough to screen cap for me.

I am wonder though, just what is average for MRQ. Is the 3d6+6 drop lowest a perk for player characters? Or is that how humans are in mRQ?

With the drop the lowest die thing, average is probably closer to 14 than 13.

I wonder, when the non-human PC rules come out will they get an extra die to stats too?

 

[Nagisawa]

I am wonder though, just what is average for MRQ. Is the 3d6+6 drop lowest a perk for player characters? Or is that how humans are in mRQ?

With the drop the lowest die thing, average is probably closer to 14 than 13.

I wonder, when the non-human PC rules come out will they get an extra die to stats too?

TO all your questions: I think so. After all this may be a 'gritty' game but in no way is it Warhammer Fantasy, for which I am personally thankful.

I like playing moderately heroic types. Not normal people pushed into abnormal situations...

 

[Ronism]

I am wonder though, just what is average for MRQ. Is the 3d6+6 drop lowest a perk for player characters? Or is that how humans are in mRQ?

With the drop the lowest die thing, average is probably closer to 14 than 13.

I wonder, when the non-human PC rules come out will they get an extra die to stats too?

TO all your questions: I think so. After all this may be a 'gritty' game but in no way is it Warhammer Fantasy, for which I am personally thankful.

I like playing moderately heroic types. Not normal people pushed into abnormal situations...

I assumed the "drop the lowest" mechanic is designed to give PCs the edge they (to some thinking) should have as "hero's." If I'm right, then the human average for most of the Characteristics is 10-11, whereas the human average for INT and SIZ would then be 13. The SIZ part jives with the chart Atgxtg produced, as 77-83kg or 169-184lbs. is about the average human weight in the real world.

Thoughts?

 

[atgxtg]

I assumed the "drop the lowest" mechanic is designed to give PCs the edge they (to some thinking) should have as "hero's." If I'm right, then the human average for most of the Characteristics is 10-11, whereas the human average for INT and SIZ would then be 13. The SIZ part jives with the chart Atgxtg produced, as 77-83kg or 169-184lbs. is about the average human weight in the real world.

Thoughts?

THat was exaclty the situation in RQ3. 10-11 average except for INT and SIZ.

THe average advantage of the higher stats now is probably a small damage bouns, and an extra hit point in each location, and about 2% to all skills. One major bewneift is probably the reduced chance of wimping out and getting numbers below 7.

A 3 CON and 8 INT is not something I'd want to inflict on a player. Not that he'd suffer for long.

 

[are]

Best 2 dice out of 3:
Arithmetic average: 8.458333333
Standard deviation: 2.220019904

Best 3 dice out of 4:
Arithmetic average: 12.24459877
Standard deviation: 2.847943401

This gives average size and int of heroic humans of 14.46, up 1.46 from 13.
The average of all other ability scores increases from 10.5 to 12.24, and increase of 1.74.