Statisticals. What is 'Average'.

[Nagisawa]

I'm looking through the main core and I'm not finding anything that defines the average human being. Or at least what some of the numbers mean.

Things like what does size 9 or 12 represent in terms of mass? How much can a man or woman with a Strength of 11 lift?

Most of the other stats I can guestimate or just base it on little things like IQ scores for intelligence.

 

[andakitty]

Encumbrance is on page 89. As for little things like what STR 11 means compared to STR 15 or SIZ 10, that was what the Resistance Table was used for before, and is one of my problems with MRQ...that there doesn't seem to be a way to simulate some things that were covered by the stats before. There are charts in some BRP games showing what different sizes represent in mass.

 

[Nagisawa]

I know, but I'd like to know what it is in kilograms or pounds (Actually, I can figure out the imperial measurements relatively easily.) After all when Bubo the Barbarian with his Strength of 14 walks up to a 100kg (Approx. 220lbs.) gate, I want to know if he'll have a chance to lift the sucker.

And how tall is someone at SIZ 9? 1.5m (Almost 5ft)? 1.6m? (5' 2-3")

 

[Urox]

And how tall is someone at SIZ 9? 1.5m (Almost 5ft)? 1.6m? (5' 2-3")

A 9 SIZ character is exactly 1 SIZ shorter than a 10 SIZ person :?

MQ seems to be much more abstract in items like this than RQ/BRP.

It is my understanding that MQ mostly drops stats usage beyond character creation, using a skill system instead.

So, to lift that gate, a character would use their Athletics skill maybe? Or possibly an advanced skill. This leads to the odd situation where a STR 9 character could be better at lifting gates than a STR 18 character if the former has trained up the appropriate skill.

In turn, the Gate would have it's own skill level to determine difficulty, and an opposed roll would resolve it. This is similar to HeroQuest if you are familiar with the system.

Someone with a better grasp of the rules please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[atgxtg]

I think that just goes with the abstration common to "modern" gaming. I'm surprised someone hasn't said "that for the GM to say" by now.


With the exception of a few stat tweaks for the creatures, I suppose we could use the RQ3 SIZE chart for comparisons.

Of course, now that we use a "roll 4 drop 1" method (D&D) for stats (SIZ and INT being roll 3 drop 1 and add 6), the average SIZ has gone up from 13 to around a 14. Humans got bigger.

 

[Nagisawa]

So, uh, what is size 13? Are we talking shoes here?

 

[andakitty]

Well, there is the 'brute force' rule under Athletics skill. That seems to take care of one of the more common uses of the Resistance Table. Look also at the 'Inanimate objects' table on page 93. The modifiers are interesting. I guess if you want to push a boulder down on some enemies, you roll STR+SIZ or less and you can push that generic boulder off the cliff... I think with MRQ the GM's judgement calls are to replace some of the game constructs from such as RQ2.

 

[atgxtg]

Well, there is the 'brute force' rule under Athletics skill. That seems to take care of one of the more common uses of the Resistance Table. Look also at the 'Inanimate objects' table on page 93. The modifiers are interesting. I guess if you want to push a boulder down on some enemies, you roll STR+SIZ or less and you can push that generic boulder off the cliff... I think with MRQ the GM's judgement calls are to replace some of the game constructs from such as RQ2.

Not really, since it only affects a base %. Sort of pointless once you have a 80% Atlehtics to start it all over again.

IMO what the game needs is to give peole an amount that they can lift, moce, etc based upon STR or STR+SIZ. Something based on the old RQ3/ or a brand new SIZ/mass chart.

FOr example, in RQ3 SIZ 10 was 130-142 lbs, while SIZ 15 was 202-219 lbs.

SO we could say that a STR 10 character could lift up to 142 lbs automatically, and twice that with an atletics roll. A STR 15 character could lift 219 lbs for free, or twice that with an athletics roll.

THat sort of system would mantian the mechanics of the new system while still making STR important.

You could even have the skill score add in to the total weight when it goes over 100.


BTW, For those who want it, the low end mass for a given SIZ in RQ3 was roughtly SIZ^(sqrt 2)x2 , in kilograms. It wouldn't be difficult to put Carry Capacity on the character sheet and use this number.

 

[King Amenjar]

SIZ abstraction is good: then you don't get arguments about how average height was different in mediaeval times or in the bronze age...

 

[andakitty]

Good point, that.

 

[atgxtg]

SIZ abstraction is good: then you don't get arguments about how average height was different in mediaeval times or in the bronze age...

Until you try to use it for something. Like can my STR 18 character carry a SIZ 14 body over his shoulder? How about two SIZ 14 bodies. How about a SIZ 18 body. Do two SIZ 10 bodies mass the same as a SIZ 20 body? What about a 55 gallon drum.


THe abstration makes the stat so worthless as to not even bother to list it.

The reason for concrete numbers, or at least some good benchmarks, is to held players and GFM determine good scores for numbers in thier campaigns.

With some sort of formula (I'm using RQ3 here), I can determine that a 55 gal drum is SIZ 24, than a SIZ 14 bodty is around 190 poinds, that a SIZ 18 body is around 275 pounds, that a SIZ 10 body is around 135 pounds, and that a SIZ 20 body is around 325 pounds.

It also tells me that a STR 18 man is around twice as strong as the average STR 10 man.

Abstraction tell me nothing and does nothing for me. You might as well not track SIZ at all.

 

[Nagisawa]

Abstraction sucks because it doesn't give you a baseline to use when making judgements. How tall is Size 9? Can she (I have a female Acrobat as a test character) reach that shelf 1.83m (approx. 6ft) up above to get the magical pie, or will she need to climb to get it?

Edit: Er, what atgxtg said...

And ANYONE arguing what is or isn't in a medival society needs to look at the GM and have him/her put her foot down and give an answer. Because it's not a Medival Recreation game, it's RuneQuest and RuneQuest is NOT Earth.

Don't like it, play something else.

 

[SteveMND]

SIZ abstraction is good: then you don't get arguments about how average height was different in mediaeval times or in the bronze age...

IIRC, SIZ in RQ was generally used more to describe an item's mass as opposed to specific dimensions; a SIZ 18 human would be heavier and bigger than a SIZ 13 human, but he could be bigger by being grossly overweight, or bigger by being more muscular.

I remember I had a PC who was abnormally tall and skinny. He had a SIZ of 15, but for game purposes, we ruled that his effective SIZ when dealing with height was 17, and his effective SIZ when dealing with weight was 13. Mind you, he was supposed to be exceptionally (even freakishly) tall and skinny; for typical members of a race, there was no need to really break it down like that.

 

[andakitty]

I was speculating about the designers' intent, atgxtg, not making a blanket statement about how the game works. I am as uncertain about that as many others here are.

 

[andakitty]

'Don't like it play something else', eh. I was just trying to make a helpful suggestion or two. Sorry about that. :roll:

But I more than likely will play something else, myself. 8)

Good luck with MRQ as written. :wink:

 

[Nagisawa]

I am a GM by nature, so when people start using baselines and then begins to bitch about them, I often say "This is what I'm using, deal with it." If they want to continue how unrealistic those are I just roll my eyes as you did and tell them they don't have to play in my game.

 

[andakitty]

That doesn't apply here. Have a good life.

 

[Claymore Driftwood Pub]

Calm down guys.....

 

[Enpeze]

So, uh, what is size 13? Are we talking shoes here?

I would take SIZ 13 as the human average of maybe 1.75m and 75kg. (up and down 10%)

Sometimes SIZ 13 could also be portrayed as a very bulky but not tall human. (Maybe 1.55m and 85kg) or also as slim and tall. (Maybe 1.85m and 65kg). In our group we take SIZ more as mass than as length of the body to portray the damage modifier, but this is different in other groups as I know. (in RQ3 strike ranks gave you an advantage if your SIZ was big because of reach)

THe abstration makes the stat so worthless as to not even bother to list it.

The reason for concrete numbers, or at least some good benchmarks, is to held players and GFM determine good scores for numbers in thier campaigns.

With some sort of formula (I'm using RQ3 here), I can determine that a 55 gal drum is SIZ 24, than a SIZ 14 bodty is around 190 poinds, that a SIZ 18 body is around 275 pounds, that a SIZ 10 body is around 135 pounds, and that a SIZ 20 body is around 325 pounds.

It also tells me that a STR 18 man is around twice as strong as the average STR 10 man.

Abstraction tell me nothing and does nothing for me. You might as well not track SIZ at al

I have to agree with atgxtg in this matter. (one of the few agreements we have ) Abstraction is not worth anything. Luckily you can use the usual BRP resistance table and the weight table as a good tool for such things. I would recommend to incorporate it into MRQ. This should solve the most of your simulation problems.

 

[King Amenjar]

You could, of course, abstract distances in terms of SIZ. Instead of jumping over a chasm 2.2m wide you could say the chasm is SIZ 20 or whatever.