Slings and (more importantly) arrows of outrageous fortune

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Missile weapons in RPGs are often problematic. If we used MRQ at Agincourt what would we get?

Assume reasonably experienced (seasoned) English archers with DEX12, +10% bow from background and +10% or so as soldiers plus 50 points wearing average AP2 -14% would give roughly 55% net Bow.

French knights with similar experience say +75% shield -42% from full plate - say 30% net parry. (Of course the shield was falling out of use). Assume dodge similar.

French knights are moving on foot through muddy fields so on 2 CA at 4m so 8m per round.

Archers with longbows have extreme range of 350m and effective 175m. Assume they don't shoot until effective range.

An average archer will hit with a Precise Shot on 15% which would (generously) be fully parried/dodged 30% of the time so success of a shot would be (0.15*0.7 or about 10%.

So every 10 shots (one per round - 1st CA shoot, 2nd CA load) the archer would hit a knight for an average of 9 damage (2D8) ignoring armour therefore causing a Major Wound. In this time the knight will have moved 80m ie half the beaten zone. Note that this will change if either is CA3 [which will also boost rate of archer fire to an OTT 18 shots/minute].

So on this premise a massacre of plate armoured knights. However this isn't what happened. Obviously there are a lot of factors but just to take the archer vs plate discussion forward:

(a) Bow range was not that great - commonly asserted maximum effective ranges are 240 paces/yards although opinions differ and here they would be in barrage mode (think sheets of arrows) aimed at crowded back ranks.
(b) The arrows used to punch through armour were generally bodkin headed and used at point blank range.
(c) There is evidence that even a bodkin arrow would normally fail to penetrate plate.
(d) Finding a gap in early 15th century plate (aka precise shot) would have been very diffficult unless the man at arms had unlatched his bevor or similar protection, which some may have done to see better and to reduce heat.

Now one battle at a specified date does not a fantasy RPG make but in my view is worth consideration.

Houserule suggestions to consider
(a) reduce effective missile range - especially longbow
(b) halve damage over effective range
(c) drop missile damage
(d) allow ranged precise shot only at close quarters - maybe 10m?

I have not suggested amending movement in this context (although I believe there is an (easily fixed) issue with this more generally) as I suspect 100m per minute as being on the high side for the dismounted men at arms.

Regards

 

[atgxtg]

I see two problems with your premise.

First off, the english archers did no use prevcise shot tactics. Typical battlefield archery consists os volley fire. This means firring rapidly into the mass of the enenmy units, and getting more hits due to the density of the targets.


Secondly, the average "seasoned" bowman has more skill than the ones given in your example. Remember, they were required by law to practice 20 hours a week. Your stats are more in line for a beginning character. If we go with a "Seasoned" character as on page 103, the bow skill would end up being higher. Unfornately there is no Yeoman background in the book to boost starting percentages, but we can still reach the 70s.

Now the reduction of plate armor down to 6 and the increasing of longbow damage to 2d8 still results in arrows being armor piecing-especially with the implae effects.

 

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

I see two problems with your premise.

First off, the english archers did no use prevcise shot tactics. Typical battlefield archery consists os volley fire. This means firring rapidly into the mass of the enenmy units, and getting more hits due to the density of the targets.


Secondly, the average "seasoned" bowman has more skill than the ones given in your example. Remember, they were required by law to practice 20 hours a week. Your stats are more in line for a beginning character. If we go with a "Seasoned" character as on page 103, the bow skill would end up being higher. Unfornately there is no Yeoman background in the book to boost starting percentages, but we can still reach the 70s.

Now the reduction of plate armor down to 6 and the increasing of longbow damage to 2d8 still results in arrows being armor piecing-especially with the implae effects.

While we don't know the actual tactics employed I agree that they seem most likely to have been volley fire into a 'crowd' and in practice there would have been no precise shots - the issue is that under the rules as they are currently they could be used.

Again I think you are right that I have underplayed the potential retained archer stats - this of course increases the effect of 'armour piercing' arrows if an individual can use precise shot.

I'd discounted impale but that indeed adds another layer.

Regards

 

[atgxtg]

I think the big problem with this in MRQ probably comes from the new longbow damage of 2d8 vs the new (well RQ2 old, actually) Armor Valiue of 6 for plate, with no layering effects. This makes an average arrow hit capable of punching right through the plate for 3 points of damage.

THat's a big shift in favor of the longbow from previous edtions.

 

[zanshin]

Remember you also now get a STR bonus to missile fire as well I believe.

 

[atgxtg]

Remember you also now get a STR bonus to missile fire as well I believe.

I believe that is with thrown weapons. I suppose we could do up bow stats by STR and pull.

 

[Rurik]

Remember you also now get a STR bonus to missile fire as well I believe.

I believe that is with thrown weapons. I suppose we could do up bow stats by STR and pull.

The players guide PDF is says all missle weapons get damage bonus unless it explicitly says they don't in the weapon description. So DB does apply to the Longbow. :twisted:

 

[atgxtg]

Remember you also now get a STR bonus to missile fire as well I believe.

I believe that is with thrown weapons. I suppose we could do up bow stats by STR and pull.

The players guide PDF is says all missle weapons get damage bonus unless it explicitly says they don't in the weapon description. So DB does apply to the Longbow. :twisted:

Oh goodie, 2d8+1d2.

I wonder what a 9mm pistol does in RQ now? 2d10?
A M-16- 5d10?
A .50 MG 11d10?