Scarcity of magic

[Gaheir]

A major change, to my mind, is the dropping of power gain rolls as a fairly common occurence. With a power sacrifice being needed rather frequently-integrating runes, gaining divine spells-giving up one of your few improvement attempts almost every opportunity will result in fewer attempts to improve your other skills. The urgent need for mana, and it's ebb and flo as you gained and lost favor with the gods, was reflected by the separate gain roll for power. I feel there must be a mechanism for increased power gain opportunities. (A new trigger would also be needed, if a power gain roll were added, with the removal of the resistance table/roll. Perhaps succesful use of a spell vs. a target or multiple succesful spell casts. Maybe a roll after a number of succesful critical actions, as you draw the universe's attention!)
Spells are going to be less common, because of the need to integrate runes AND the lack of power to gain them. To stay true to Glorantha, I feel some way must be found to loosen these restrictions (unless runes are going to be more common than the rules imply).

 

[Halfbat]

(unless runes are going to be more common than the rules imply).

I think that's the beauty of the Rune Magic system: Runes can be as common or as rare as a group wants or a campaign wishes. If you want Runes to be more plentiful, or some to be more common than others, then you can!

There's a limit on Divine Magic of 20 points (as the character will be walking around with a POW of 1 and 20 points of Dedicated POW), which limits the MP available for Rune Spells. However, someone that tough, I guess, would also have a range of crystals (POW storing "Crystals of the Dead" and enhancers) to boost what they had - and, again, its something you can enable in your campaigns.

As far as POW increases go you may have a point - it is quite likely that a dedicated magic wielder will spend all his experience checks into POW increases. Is that not the cost of specialisation? But there is nothing to stop a GM awarding a few extra skill increases, or specific increases in the area.

 

[Sigtrygg]

A lot would depend on the setting IMHO.

In a magic rich world like Glorantha then POW gain rolls may be more plentiful - everyone has magic.

But use the MRQ rules in a more classic fantasy setting and focusing the party spell caster to use most of their attibute gain rolls in reclaiming POW is a neat way to specialisation of roles within the party.

In a low magic setting then perhaps the magic user would have to look to harvesting the POW of others to gain access to runes and spells...

 

[TRose]

another big limit on magic, or at least rune magic if I am reading it right , is you need a different runecasting skill with each rune. so if you know 6 runes thats a lot os skills you will need to raise.

 

[atgxtg]

THe big limit that I see is money. It costs a bundle to raise magnitudes. A magintude 3 spell costs 400 silvers, that about three weeks of income for a mastercraftsman or Knight.

Getting several spells past the Magnitue 4 level, for a group of adventurers, is gonna require D&D type treasures.

 

[Gaheir]

Power gain rolls are the big dilemna in my opinion. (I always think of RQ in Glorantha terms, so link it with a magic rich environment.) Mongoose has added a layer of power expenditure (integrating runes) and cut down on the opportunity to increase power. The suggestion that using one of your 2-4 increase opportunities for power each time as a cost of specialization forgets that a spell caster will also have to improve his runecasting skills as well.
I don't see the costs as prohibitive in acquiring spells. Not needing to purchase the lower magnitudes before purchasing the higher may actually diminish the cost. If the coin values are similar to RQII (I will check rules copies later to compare purchase prices of arms/armor to see which has a higher silver cost) than spells are substantially cheaper in MRQ.

 

[soltakss]

Well, in our current campaign (RQ3 with some aspects of RQM), we have POW Gain rolls costing 1 Experience Point if POW was overcome during the session or a rune/crystal was attuned and 3 if it wasn't.

Our PCs have been sacrificing for runes left, right and centre, even though they don't find runes that often and can't always afford to buy them at 1000L each.

Having said that, our Storm Bull has 9 Death Runes, our Shaman has something like 6 Spirit Runes, a couple of Magic Runes, 4 Fire Runes and has sacrificed for Divine Magic (which we still use) and Cult Presence (sort of a Divine Magic Pool that we are using). I think she has spent 20 POW on Runes, Divine Magic and boosting her Fetch.

So, if you do have POW gain rolls fairly regularly then you can very quickly build up runes and spells.

By the way, our players very quickly worked out that it was a waste of time for everyone to have Death Runes and cast Bladesharp as it made the resulting spells weaker. They agreed to let each PC concentrate on certain runes and spell casting. So, our Storm Bull has Death Runecasting and 9 Death Runes, he casts Bladesharp and similar spells, our shaman casts Spirit-based spells and Healing and our Tracker/Merchant doesn't really use magic.

I play that Runes are available in the wild on a POWx1, in a market or holy place POWx2, in a holy place on a holy day POWx3, in a holy place on a high holy day POWx4. They can't try and find a rune everywhere they go, as that is abusing the system, so there are limits. If they are in a holy place then there is a 50% chance of picking up runes specific to the holy place. If they are in a market place they can roll twice and take the most appropriate rune, reflecting runic availability.

It seems to work fine, although they are now at the point where they are casting higher powered spells and might need slowing down a bit.

 

[Halfbat]

our Storm Bull has 9 Death Runes, our Shaman has something like 6 Spirit Runes, a couple of Magic Runes, 4 Fire Runes

Why integrating so many of the same type? The effects don't stack so it seems a bit of a waste? Or is this the product of the merged RQ3 and early MRQ?

 

[Gaheir]

Spell costs are actually much cheaper in MRQ. To know heal 2 and heal 6 in MRQ will cost 200+3200=3400 silver. In RQII the cost will be 500+1000+1500+2000+2500+3000=10,500 guilders to know heal 6. And MRQ silver is less valuable. In RQII a hard leather shirt (hauberk) costs 40 guilders and a broad sword costs 50. The MRQ costs are 175 sp (warsword) and 350 (hauberk). The relative value of the heal 6 and heal 2 in MRQ is 10 leather hauberks vs. over 200 in RQ II.

 

[atgxtg]

Spell costs are actually much cheaper in MRQ. To know heal 2 and heal 6 in MRQ will cost 200+3200=3400 silver. In RQII the cost will be 500+1000+1500+2000+2500+3000=10,500 guilders to know heal 6. And MRQ silver is less valuable. In RQII a hard leather shirt (hauberk) costs 40 guilders and a broad sword costs 50. The MRQ costs are 175 sp (warsword) and 350 (hauberk). The relative value of the heal 6 and heal 2 in MRQ is 10 leather hauberks vs. over 200 in RQ II.

Compare to RQ3 though. MRQ uses the RQ3 economic system for it's baseline. Most item prices are the same as in RQ3. So you got a RQ3 economy and wage system to throw the magic onto.

That puts the costs of some spells into the yearaly wage categories.

 

[Gaheir]

I still find the costs to be relatively low. The heal 2 and heal 6 above costs substantially less than a single platemail breastplate, or 10 leather hauberks. The purchase of a leather hauberk can't be anticipated to be a major expense for a character in an FRP setting, making the spell cost low as well. (The heal 2 will cost you less than that leather hauberk.) In a high magic world that is fine. The actual cost (a power point to integrate the rune) is much more severe-though it does come with other positive results. I feel a mechanic needs to be included to allow greater regeneration of sacrificed power, as in earlier versions. (At least allow the previous power gain roll for a chance to gain 2 or 3 power when you do succeed.)