Rules Clarification: Agent Programs (CSCp69)

[swordtart]

Sure. I was wondering whether there are things that the character has to themselves rather than having their portable computer do for them. Maybe there are computers with non means for the portable computer to connect to it, so the character has to use a physical interface?

Certainly the Agent can't do physical computer tasks, but I see those being edge cases given the whole purpose of computers is to operate digitally. They may have a keyboard for technicians, but most techs will be using portable computers as well.

That is not to say it can't happen, but at worst then the Expert/Agent can talk the flesh bag through the task (and in that case you will need to take the characters stat DMs into account)

 

[swordtart]

Sorry. By granting the skill I meant it can do it autonomously (usefully insulating you from that appalling EDU DM). You just tell the computer to "Find me a supplier of X on the Planetary Data net". The computer makes the skill check. But from a practical standpoint that is no different to the character having skill 0 and making the check themselves.

Actually CSC p70 tells us that with Intellect the user can make the skill check AS IF they had the skill at Expert bandwidth-1. In that case you would still use the characters stat DMs.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Actually CSC p70 tells us that with Intellect the user can make the skill check AS IF they had the skill at Expert bandwidth-1. In that case you would still use the characters stat DMs.

Sure sure - but Intellect is not available until TL-12

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Specialised Computers (CSC p69) have the interface included at no bandwidth. You can have specialised Intellect at TL9. It just cost 10x the price (but as you can buy the computer at a few tens of credits that is not such an issue).

You can still access remote Expert Packages using the Intellect on your Comm leveraging the remote computers bandwidth. Frankly you could host the Intellect on the remote computer as well and just use the Computer/1 to transfer the data to and fro, but I like the other functions of the interface to be on-hand.

This is really interesting, and I need to think about how to use it for my case. Thank you.

Edit: I wonder if a Traveller needs Electronics (Computer) (at least at 0) to be able to make sure the connections work, or if maybe without it he occasionally fat fingers something that disconnects it and he can't get it back without help. Or maybe Agent/0 on the portable computer is enough to keep it together for him.

 

[swordtart]

Sure sure - but Intellect is not available until TL-12

It is a shame that there is no TL9 computer since that is the TL of a Specialised computer that has Intellect. It depends if you think a Retrotech TL9 computer built at TL11 is a TL11 computer or a TL9 one. The rules indicate it is still TL11. If so any retrotech computer built at TL9+ could be specialised with Intellect. You need to bear this in mind as the TL of Expert package will also be limited by that decision.

In the former case your TL11 specialised computer with Intellect could be retro-TL10 and cost Cr2500 or if you take the view that it is the Computer/1 is all that retro-TL8 means (my view) you could get one for Cr325 (plus the cost of the Expert package itself)

With a Specialised computer you can only have a single Expert package chosen when you first get it and cannot change it, but that is still useful and as time goes on you might buy others.

The wording of Agent is that it is a specialised Expert and single purpose Expert package. It says specifically it can be used in autonomous mode and grants the whole bandwidth of the package as the skill level. So TL11 can get Agent-0 and depending on your take on how the retro-TL relates to the TL of the computer you can get away with a retro-TL7 but there is no cost advantage to a TL8 one. The total cost of such a system would be Cr825 and you still have bandwidth 1 to simultaneously run another package.

Lots of options.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

I am still reading CSC as saying Intellect isn't available until TL-12

 

[swordtart]

I am still reading CSC as saying Intellect isn't available until TL-12
View attachment 6099

Intellect as an installable software package is not available until TL12. Hardware-implemented Intellect in a Specialised computer is explicitly available from TL9 per CSC p69.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Intellect as an installable software package is not available until TL12. Hardware-implemented Intellect in a Specialised computer is explicitly available from TL9 per CSC p69.

Ah., sorry - with you now. Thanks.

 

[swordtart]

Ah., sorry - with you now. Thanks.

No worries. Too many words in too many books, many of them contradictory. The wording on Intellect is especially arcane.

"It can simultaneously run any Expert package and a number of Expert packages equal to the Bandwidth remaining after subtracting that required for Intellect."

I still have no idea what that sentence means

 

[swordtart]

Edit: I wonder if a Traveller needs Electronics (Computer) (at least at 0) to be able to make sure the connections work, or if maybe without it he occasionally fat fingers something that disconnects it and he can't get it back without help. Or maybe Agent/0 on the portable computer is enough to keep it together for him.

My take is if you don't have Agent then you need to make an Electronics(Computer) check to operate your computer.

Some tasks will be so trivial however that even -3 for being unskilled won't be a significant impediment (especially if you take your time). Accessing the planetary dataweb for public information is an Easy(4+) check. So an unskilled person of average INT or EDU will succeed over half the time (needs 7+). Or the majority of the time (need 5+) if they spend 10 times as long. It depends on the impact of your failing.

If you are accessing a public information system (i.e. a library's help system rather then Googling something) you might make that an Admin check instead as it is about filling in the form to take you through a system designed to help rather than being able to correctly phrase the query for a search engine. Or it might require a computer check but with a boon (or bane if the interface is particularly obtuse).

Some public information systems will doubtless have an integrated Agent to make things easy for the non-technical (and reduce the pressure on the call centre). Once you are making those Easy searches with no penalty you can't really fail, the worst case is it might take you longer (because you couldn't resist clicking on that You Tube cat video and then got sucked in).

As you don't have to rely on that -2DM from EDU (assuming his INT DM isn't worse) for most normal tasks losing the -3 for unskilled will make a significant difference and Agent-0 will mean they can just ask their mobile to do the work for them (and bypass any stat DM).

They'll be fine (until the battery fails)

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

I am still reading CSC as saying Intellect isn't available until TL-12
View attachment 6099

But in Traveller Merchant's Edition 2025 (and CRB 2016) it has another Intellect program:

CRB 2016
Intellect TL 11 Bandwidth 10 Cost 1 MCr Allows a ship to understand and obey verbal commands.

Merchant's Edition 2025
Intellect TL 11 Bandwidth 0 Cost Included Allows a ship to understand and obey verbal commands.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

I am surprised no one has brought up the Informatics skill.
I use it IMTU frequently. Electronics (Informatics) is basically a specialised skill used to search databases and run network-based search inquiries. Travellers who possess a skill in Informatics treats his Electronics skill as unskilled when using other devices unless he has another speciality that covers their use, such as the more specialized Electronics (Sensors). When searching databases, he treats his skill as twice the Informatics specialty.

I also give Electronics (Informatics) 0 to anyone who lived in a TL8+ society as a background benefit.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

But in Traveller Merchant's Edition 2025 (and CRB 2016) it has another Intellect program:

CRB 2016
Intellect TL 11 Bandwidth 10 Cost 1 MCr Allows a ship to understand and obey verbal commands.

Merchant's Edition 2025
Intellect TL 11 Bandwidth 0 Cost Included Allows a ship to understand and obey verbal commands.

That's for Ship Computer though, right?

 

[ResslynHalvik]

I am surprised no one has brought up the Informatics skill.
I use it IMTU frequently. Electronics (Informatics) is basically a specialised skill used to search databases and run network-based search inquiries. Travellers who possess a skill in Informatics treats his Electronics skill as unskilled when using other devices unless he has another speciality that covers their use, such as the more specialized Electronics (Sensors). When searching databases, he treats his skill as twice the Informatics specialty.

I also give Electronics (Informatics) 0 to anyone who lived in a TL8+ society as a background benefit.

Which book is this in?

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

That's for Ship Computer though, right?

Yes. But can't those same computers run the other Intellect programs and Expert Software? Having two different programs with different functions but the same name is a problem.

Also in CRB 2016

A ship running an Intellect program and Expert Engineer (j-drive, m-drive or power) can act as an engineer

So can this intellect program run Expert programs or not?

 

[ResslynHalvik]

I don't know. I do know that it doesn't fit in my character's pocket.

 

[Limpin Legin]

I am surprised no one has brought up the Informatics skill.

Yess, although I'm not sure using Electronics as a base speciality really frees up the discussion. The way you've implemented it suggests "Informatics might be a branch of Electronics, but there again it is not." Which is even more than confusing. Better to think of Informatics as the root of Bioinformatics, and therefore part of the Science(Genetics) skill.

In fact, since Informatics is a mathematical study , you could define the skill as Science(Informatics).
That would give four ways of gaining some aspect of computer knowledge:
i) Electronics(Computer)
ii) Admin(Computer Literacy)
iii) Science(Informatics)
iv) Science(Robotics)