Rules Clarification: Agent Programs (CSCp69)
- Thread starter Yenaldlooshi
- Start date
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Agreed on all points.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I haven’t found that yet. Tell me more!
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Not sure it would change much. The differing costs are for different things. The robot stuff is only for robots and the other for biological. Thats my opinion anyway.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I was looking at this today with a Wafer Jack skill of Expert/3. The character had skill 0, so they could only get a DM+1. And I realized an unskilled person would have a DM+2.
To me, that’s ridiculous. I immediately decided to house rule it that anyone would get bandwidth of skill -1. If they already had skill 2, too bad. No bonus.
Maybe if they had skill 2 it should allow that person skill/3. Not sure. I’d have to think about that.
I agree. Although that program is bloody expensive, and won't fit into the wafer jacks available in the core book, which are Computer/2 and are only capable of running Skill-0 or Skill-1 programs. (which brings up another terminology confusion - "Bandwidth" vs "Capacity Bandwidth"...)
But there is a Computer/3 version in the Catalogue, and the issue comes up with any Computer/3+, including all ship computers. So the house rule is needed.
Another way you might do it is to say both rules apply. So a person with actual skill gets the program at bandwidth-1 as well as a +1.
Actually, I really like that idea. You end up with:
Program Unskilled Skill-0 Skill-1 Skill-2 Skill-3
BW/1 +0 +1 +2 +3 +4 (same as RAW)
BW/2 +1 +2 +2 +3 +4 (better for skill zero, otherwise same)
BW/3 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 (better for skill zero and one but a pretty expensive option across the board)
And as a footnote, at TL14 an unskilled character might be better off with a plastic pal.
But there is a Computer/3 version in the Catalogue, and the issue comes up with any Computer/3+, including all ship computers. So the house rule is needed.
Another way you might do it is to say both rules apply. So a person with actual skill gets the program at bandwidth-1 as well as a +1.
Actually, I really like that idea. You end up with:
Program Unskilled Skill-0 Skill-1 Skill-2 Skill-3
BW/1 +0 +1 +2 +3 +4 (same as RAW)
BW/2 +1 +2 +2 +3 +4 (better for skill zero, otherwise same)
BW/3 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 (better for skill zero and one but a pretty expensive option across the board)
And as a footnote, at TL14 an unskilled character might be better off with a plastic pal.
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We can only hope that makes it into wider circulation for assessment and incorporation rather than being another "house rule" buried in another supplement.
Yenaldlooshi
Cosmic Mongoose
Ooh!! I just got my PDF version. What page numbers?
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Robots seem much more capable, and I see no difference from a Robot that fits in your hand, to a Comm Link. It is not consistent. Again, I do need to refresh myself with the robot rules.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
They are much more capable. The issue is that they aren’t made to use the skills to directly apply to the Traveller, only for their own use of the skills. The ones for the Traveller are more expensive but they can’t use the ones for the robot, at least not without just letting the robot do it all.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Robocalls
How else does regular Expert skill software work. It runs on a Computer and the PC's follow the instructions. Why would the Robot not be able to run that? These are why I want a rewrite of the Computer Skill System. I want something I don't have to house rule.
At the very least a Mobile Comm Robot could do a Task chain to assist.
Why not build 15 specialized computers, each for a different skill to 0 size and put them in a Portable Computer and switch between them so you save on Bandwidth.
The rules say you can use a Neural Comm as a dumb terminal to run software on another computer. Does that mean with your Computer/0 Neural comm with a 5k Transmitter you can run Expert/3 Software off a Computer in your stateroom from a 3 Kilometers away?
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Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I'm with you on wanting them rewritten. They're a mess.
Why put them in a portable computer, specialised computers to carry a single expert package can be very low TL and made at very small at higher TLs. Have them as buttons on your coat talking to your mobile comm.
Yes as long as you are happy with an expert package being run through a dumb terminal. If the signal was blocked you would be out of luck as well, but these are edge conditions (not that a well informed enemy wouldn't try to isolate you from your helper).
ResslynHalvik
Cosmic Mongoose
I have just been trying to understand what can be done with a TL-11 Computer/1 mobile comm. Is tryin to understand that a pointless task? Am I better just ignoring the computer capability of this that CRB and CSC claim?
The inter-relationship between mobile comm, transceivers and computers is a bit tortuous as they often include each other at different TLs.
The TL 11 Mobile Comm has no inherent advantage over the TL10 Mobile Comm other than being half the price (Cr250) and mass due to the retrotech rules. It has 5km range.
At TL8 a zero mass 5km range Transceiver is Cr75, at TL11 it would have halved in price several times to the point that the cost of a TL8 equivalent will be less than Cr10. However beyond TL10 a TL8 transceiver is "included at no additional cost in most electronic devices".
You can add a computer to a Transceiver. You can add a TL9 computer to a TL11 transceiver (which can still have the capability of a TL8 transceiver). This costs twice the cost of the computer but as the TL9 computer has no advantage over TL8 we can retrotech it the TL8 transceiver with computer/1 costs Cr260 so broadly the same outcome as the Mobile Comm.
Where it comes unstuck is that you can buy the TL11 retrotech TL8 Mobile Computer equivalent which is only Cr32 and by now is a chip (1/8th of the normal Cr250 price). TL8+ computers come with cameras, displays and 5km comms as standard at no cost (echoing the sentiment in the section on transceivers).
So basically why buy a retrotech TL10 Mobile Comm on p63 for Cr250 when you can buy a retrotech TL8 Computer/1 for Cr32 or a retrotech TL10 Computer/2 for Cr250 or a specialised Computer/1 with built in Intelligent interface for under Cr160 or a Computer/1 with 100 times the range for Cr150.
For your Cr250 you could have eight TL8 Computer/1 each able to run a single bandwidth program rather than your TL10 Mobile Comm that can only run one. Those 8 computers could all communicate wirelessly (over 5km) and could run those 8 programs simultaneously.
The Mobile Comms all cost too much.
The TL 11 Mobile Comm has no inherent advantage over the TL10 Mobile Comm other than being half the price (Cr250) and mass due to the retrotech rules. It has 5km range.
At TL8 a zero mass 5km range Transceiver is Cr75, at TL11 it would have halved in price several times to the point that the cost of a TL8 equivalent will be less than Cr10. However beyond TL10 a TL8 transceiver is "included at no additional cost in most electronic devices".
You can add a computer to a Transceiver. You can add a TL9 computer to a TL11 transceiver (which can still have the capability of a TL8 transceiver). This costs twice the cost of the computer but as the TL9 computer has no advantage over TL8 we can retrotech it the TL8 transceiver with computer/1 costs Cr260 so broadly the same outcome as the Mobile Comm.
Where it comes unstuck is that you can buy the TL11 retrotech TL8 Mobile Computer equivalent which is only Cr32 and by now is a chip (1/8th of the normal Cr250 price). TL8+ computers come with cameras, displays and 5km comms as standard at no cost (echoing the sentiment in the section on transceivers).
So basically why buy a retrotech TL10 Mobile Comm on p63 for Cr250 when you can buy a retrotech TL8 Computer/1 for Cr32 or a retrotech TL10 Computer/2 for Cr250 or a specialised Computer/1 with built in Intelligent interface for under Cr160 or a Computer/1 with 100 times the range for Cr150.
For your Cr250 you could have eight TL8 Computer/1 each able to run a single bandwidth program rather than your TL10 Mobile Comm that can only run one. Those 8 computers could all communicate wirelessly (over 5km) and could run those 8 programs simultaneously.
The Mobile Comms all cost too much.
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