ErinPalette
Mongoose
For the record I'm not suggesting we drop ALL computers and software, just the ones on capital ships. The current system works just fine for ships 100-900 dtons.
Request: Make Capital Ship Software Different
- Thread starter ErinPalette
- Start date
ErinPalette said:
That's Ok, I did....
My objection to the ship's computers bits are that they don't match/mesh with the other Computer rules in the text. If we mush keep them then maybe a look at how they were handled in CT's Book 2, there is way more utility for ship's operations there than in the MgT rules...
phavoc said:
I realise that the computer program thing is 'classic' Traveller but it's easy to argue that the Vilani have dedicated computers and not programs and the only real difference is that a Solomani vessel actually ties them in to a central and flexible controller.
As for assuming the cost into the vessel I would still advocate adding the 'computer' to limit the bonus - you're not necessarily adding a computer as such but the data busses and core processors that allow the other faster systems to operate efficiently. This is a trivial cost for a vessel like a Tigress class but a noticeable bump in the price of a 50 ton fighter.
Similarly, you could instal that 'borrowed' +3 Beam laser in your scout /courier but until you upgrade the basic system it's never going to get that bonus.
You can easily say that a character can attempt to add to any modifier that is currently lower than their computer/gunnery/engineering skill. This still allows characters to add a +1 bonus onto the existing one for this shot/encounter only. This means they can make a difference in tweeting their tramp freighter's pulse laser but getting any more out of that Imperial laser turret with +4 fire control not so much. Alternatively, you could put some limits if you want to make the mod permanent such as additional cost and unless you are the original modder you need to have a certain amount of familiarity with the system to get the extra bonus. For example, your freighter already has +1 beam lasers but only Fred the gunner gets the extra +1 unless you've already been in say four battles with that gun.
Just to let you know we are already on the case for this - High Guard will have a separate chapter on software for ship computers that takes advantage of their massive power.
ErinPalette
Mongoose
Fine by me! But I suspect others like Nerhesi and phavoc will be less pleased. 
Nerhesi said:
In that case, you might be okay with what we end up with
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Someone could write another supplement on computers, programmes, variants, options and how system integrators avoid taking up drinking or seeing a shrink.
phavoc said:
You are going to regret suggesting that...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
That's how the Imperial Treasury pays for the bureaucracy.
Ok Matt - so far looks great. The new software is amazing and I do very much think it'll be a perfect fit for barrage/large scale engagements.
Saying that - what is the actual logical difference between Capital Computers and Regular Ship Computers?
Remember what we were saying.. I'm that eccentric baron or that special ops admiral or what have you that needs a capital computer on their non-capital ship. Computers take are built into other structures, and if our technology is ANY indicator, power is getting more and more miniaturized.
Simplest and most logical fix - just change the prices for the high end of the non-Capital computers. So basically your Computer/35 tops out at 10 MCr, then comes your Core/40 at MCr12 (as is) and so on.
Saying that - what is the actual logical difference between Capital Computers and Regular Ship Computers?
Remember what we were saying.. I'm that eccentric baron or that special ops admiral or what have you that needs a capital computer on their non-capital ship. Computers take are built into other structures, and if our technology is ANY indicator, power is getting more and more miniaturized.
Simplest and most logical fix - just change the prices for the high end of the non-Capital computers. So basically your Computer/35 tops out at 10 MCr, then comes your Core/40 at MCr12 (as is) and so on.
To my mind, it is not necessarily the raw processing hardware you are paying for, but the connections to other systems, the software (OS)... basically we need ship computers to be the catchall to anything remotely computerised on a ship which, at higher TLs, I think will be considerable...
msprange said:
Agreed.
Currently though, I dont see anyone buying anything above computer/20, rather than just jumping to Core/40 - Computer/35 may be too espensive Core/40 may be too cheap.
Since is weight is gone from computers - I think the Jump between "Computer" and "Core" needs to be more pronounced Matt (Price wise). Especially since Cores can be available so early. If we top out Computer at costing 15 or 20 MCR for example, then move Cores to a minimum of 50 MCr - then it really moves it out of the range of casual buyer. Otherwise I can see every SDB/corvette etc skipping the higher computers and just buying the Core/40 - especially since it's lower TL and similar price currently.
Nerhesi said:
Actually it is a traditional Traveller Problem, Much of the "Software" as described isn't software persay, but a upgrade to a specific ship's system.
Looking back at CT's '80 edition of High Guard probably had the best solution for capital ship electronics with a flat Model vs Model numeric comparison.
The Mode of lots more detail for the least used part of the setting is kinda ridiculous. Heck there isn't even a decent Fleet Combat Sim in place to use these ship's in any reasonable manner.
Not sure what exactly is upsetting you Info
I'm glad that we finally have a software that makes sense and is capable of aiding all weapons firing rather than just +5 spread across each turret or bay or barrage for example.
Virtual Gunner, Point Defence and Battle System are also welcome additions.
All of the above will work with any barrage/mass combat system much better than the current state which either doesn't scale well (Basic Firecontrol) or doesnt have that functionality (point defense and virtual gunner)
I'm glad that we finally have a software that makes sense and is capable of aiding all weapons firing rather than just +5 spread across each turret or bay or barrage for example.
Virtual Gunner, Point Defence and Battle System are also welcome additions.
All of the above will work with any barrage/mass combat system much better than the current state which either doesn't scale well (Basic Firecontrol) or doesnt have that functionality (point defense and virtual gunner)
Nerhesi said:Not sure what exactly is upsetting you Info
No Upset, just commenting the the escalating Complexity of ships that won't be used in play very much, especially if there isn't a significantly improved Combat system from 1st Edition.
Let me put it this way We went back to CT's High Guard for fleet actions after seeing the mess the "Barrage" System is....
The larger ships don't need more detail they need less, Turrets are fired as batteries, which really are the equivalent of bay weapons, thus any focus should be there. The other half of the problem is there is no defensive software for the most part.
And I am explaining this kinda wrong, this is all another scale change discussion again. And what I am stating is that the minutia grows exponentially if one doesn't make an effort to control it. Specific software for Adventure scale ships (i.e. under 5000 dTons) is fine, on of the classic nuances of CT's Book 2 is having the right Software Loaded at the right time. Both Offensive and defensive. More detail is better in the smaller scales as that is where most of the RPG action is going to take place.
I agree info.
Which is why I want the capital ship computer options to just be "expensive computer options" available to anyone.
I also would like capital combat not to be a fundamentally different mechanic with different results. It should be a simple "summary" that is basically multiplying attacks and damage by number of turrets. Multiplying point defense by # of PD mounts. etc etc..
I do like to roleplay a military campaign every once in a while where characters are in a destroyer style craft for example, but it should be smooth and simple.
Which is why I want the capital ship computer options to just be "expensive computer options" available to anyone.
I also would like capital combat not to be a fundamentally different mechanic with different results. It should be a simple "summary" that is basically multiplying attacks and damage by number of turrets. Multiplying point defense by # of PD mounts. etc etc..
I do like to roleplay a military campaign every once in a while where characters are in a destroyer style craft for example, but it should be smooth and simple.
