Questions about skills over 100% & Critical Hits

[WildHealer]

Hi Mongoose,

I've just received my copy of the new core rules book, and am reading through. I have a question about Very High Skills on p21, as it's something very close to my players' hearts!

Let's say we have Rurik with a Great Sword skill of 90% fighting a Puny Trollkin with Club 35%. Rurik has a Critical Hit chance of 9%; the Trollkin has a Critical Hit chance of 3%.

Now let's say Rurik comes back later with a Great Sword skill of 110%, and fights another Puny Trollkin with Club 35%. The Very High Skills rule says we should halve both skills and then play out the encounter. So, Rurik is now Great Sword 55%, and the Puny Trollkin is Club 17%. Rurik now has a Critical Hit Chance of 5% versus the Trollkin's 1%.

Is this right? For one thing, there's a whole world of difference between 110% skill and 55% skill, and a far greater relative difference between 35% and 17%. By increasing his skill to 110%, Rurik has actually made it RELATIVELY MORE DIFFICULT to defeat the trollkin!

This problem increases exponentially. If Rurik happened to have 220%, he would face the Trollkin at 55% vs 8%.

The moral of this story appear to be, if you want to score critical hits more often rather than less, don't increase your score above 100%.

Can't be right. What am I missing?

Also: Critical Hits. Firstly, it appears that you need two critical hits to an average character's head with a broadsword (War Sword) to kill them. Wow. Also, Crits no longer appear to ignore armour. If that's the case, it seems that it would take ten successive critical hits with a Light Mace on that average character's head to put them out of action (by which time everyone's probably gone home).

Am I to assume that you have to use the Bypass armour rule to have any chance of actually finishing a combat in a reasonable time?

Sorry if I sound negative - these are just questions thrown up by a first brief read-through, maybe I'm missing something.

Sarah

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Is this right? For one thing, there's a whole world of difference between 110% skill and 55% skill, and a far greater relative difference between 35% and 17%. By increasing his skill to 110%, Rurik has actually made it RELATIVELY MORE DIFFICULT to defeat the trollkin!

This problem increases exponentially. If Rurik happened to have 220%, he would face the Trollkin at 55% vs 8%.
Sarah

Yes, this halving mechanic was something that worried me when I first read it - it really does seem to be a bigger disadvantage to the higher skilled person, who is losing a larger absolute amount of skill. RQ2 used the method whereby skill over 100% subtracted the amount over 100 from the opponent's skill, which seems like a better rule.

As it stands, given that when you get to 100% skill, you are only going to improve by 1% per session, I can't see anyone getting to very high skills anyway...

Also, it would seem that Critical hits will be something of a rarity anyway - if your skill is say 90%, then you crit on a roll of 9% or less, but only if your opponent rolls lower than that (or fails the defence roll).

Mark

 

[WildHealer]

Also, it would seem that Critical hits will be something of a rarity anyway - if your skill is say 90%, then you crit on a roll of 9% or less, but only if your opponent rolls lower than that (or fails the defence roll).

Not sure where it says that - as far as I can see you gain a crit in combat when you've rolled a crit and the opponent has failed his or her dodge or parry - in the case of 90% Rurik vs the 35% trollkin that's about as often as it used to happen in RQ2/3.

BTW - thanks for the RQ2 100%+ reminder! It just shows how long it's been since I read those rules - I'd completely forgotten about the reduced parry (etc) chance. That was a pretty neat rule. 8)

As far as the MRQ mechanic is concerned, it seems pretty broken to me - if you play the game for any length of time you *will* get 100%+ characters, come what may. In my case one of my campaigns is already high-level, so it's an immediate issue. I'm still scanning the rules to see if I've missed anything.

Cheers,

Sarah

 

[Rurik]

Are you implying that I could have a difficult time defeating a puny trollkin?

I am truly, deeply, hurt.

 

[WildHealer]

Hi Rurik

You still got those groovy baggy trousers you wore at Gimpy's in RQ2? They were soooo cool. Way before you got mixed up in all that Yelmalio malarkey.

No offense, mate. I know you can brush trollkin off you like sandflies. Just mebbe not with these rules, is all... :twisted:

Sarah

 

[Rurik]

Hi Rurik

You still got those groovy baggy trousers you wore at Gimpy's in RQ2? They were soooo cool. Way before you got mixed up in all that Yelmalio malarkey.

No offense, mate. I know you can brush trollkin off you like sandflies. Just mebbe not with these rules, is all... :twisted:

Sarah

I still have them, killed my first person in them y'know. Some bully thought he could pick on me. All I had was a club - I've kept that too.

Malarky, Yemalio? do you mean Elmal? no wait, I think it's Yelmalio again. I'm so confused. If I had known what gregging lay ahead I would never have gotten mixed up with those Sun Domers.

The whole reason I use a greatsword is because my spear skill is over a hundred. I've gotten good enough with it that I can't cast bladesharp on it though.

There is still a bladesharp spell, isn't there?

 

[Archer]

Just a thought; Does not RQ follow the otherwise common 100%+ rule of basic role-playing. When you have a weapon skill over 100% you can choose to halve it and make two attacks with 1/2 % instead of just one?

Sounds like the system might be broken before it has even had time to be developed. I would hate to have to house rule the system like crazy just to have it work like it should.

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Not sure where it says that - as far as I can see you gain a crit in combat when you've rolled a crit and the opponent has failed his or her dodge or parry - in the case of 90% Rurik vs the 35% trollkin that's about as often as it used to happen in RQ2/3.

Hm, you're right there - it is about the same. I was misled by the "roll 10% of skill and higher than your opponent" bit.

BTW - thanks for the RQ2 100%+ reminder! It just shows how long it's been since I read those rules - I'd completely forgotten about the reduced parry (etc) chance. That was a pretty neat rule. 8)

Yes, although I was never quite sure who had precedence if someone with 100+ attack met someone with 100+ parry...did the parry reduce the attacker first, who then reduced the parry, etc?

As far as the MRQ mechanic is concerned, it seems pretty broken to me - if you play the game for any length of time you *will* get 100%+ characters, come what may. In my case one of my campaigns is already high-level, so it's an immediate issue. I'm still scanning the rules to see if I've missed anything.

Sure. I think you've read it right - well that's also how it seemed to me anyway.

I've often wondered about using the HeroQuest mechanic (which gives fumble, fail,success,crit results) and directly transplanting it into RQ. This would immediately solve all problems of high skill levels. You'd use everything as per RQ except for the opposed roll and masteries bit from HQ to resolve who won the attack/parry etc.

The damage stuff I haven't really looked at yet. In the playtest, with general HP gone, the worst opponent our party faced was a Giant Beetle = 6 legs, and no general HP meant that they did 40+ damage to it before they could kill it.

Mark

 

[atgxtg]

Is it just me, or does it seem like all of Mongoose's "improvements" to MRQ actually make the game worse?

I can see players screamly murder when they go over 100%.

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Just a thought; Does not RQ follow the otherwise common 100%+ rule of basic role-playing. When you have a weapon skill over 100% you can choose to halve it and make two attacks with 1/2 % instead of just one?

I haven't seen this mentioned in the rules, so I don't think it's there, maybe in the Legendary Heroes book?

You get multiple attacks per round now anyway, and can take them against the same opponent, which you couldn't do with the skill splitting mechanic (You could split to a mimimum of 50% on a skill, so you couldn't get 3 attacks until 150% etc).

Sounds like the system might be broken before it has even had time to be developed. I would hate to have to house rule the system like crazy just to have it work like it should.

Well, it's difficult to tell at the moment without having had a chance to try it properly.

Mark

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Is it just me, or does it seem like all of Mongoose's "improvements" to MRQ actually make the game worse?

I can see players screamly murder when they go over 100%.

Yes, but it also makes it easier to get rid of all those pesky Rune Lords.
Maybe they are now just honourary positions.

Mark

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Are you implying that I could have a difficult time defeating a puny trollkin?

I am truly, deeply, hurt.

Wasn't Rurik eventually killed by a Trollkin?

Mark

 

[Itto]

I read the Very High Skill Rule to be for opposed rolls.

When you initially attack someone its not opposed. Only when they try to Dodge/Parry/Dive does it become opposed.

So if Ruric has 150% attack with a spear (like a good Yelamlion) he would have 15% chance to crit.

When the poor little trolkin trys to parry/dodge (using a skill of say spear 50%) then the parry/dodge contest beomes 75% for Ruric and 25% for the trolkin.

The above will not make a great deal of sense if you have not read the combat rules yet.

I picked up the rules at Contiuun last weekend and got to play 3 times. Also I GMed my first MRQ game last night. Combat when realy swiftly. Just can't wait to get hold of the other books .

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

When the poor little trolkin trys to parry/dodge (using a skill of say spear 50%) then the parry/dodge contest beomes 75% for Ruric and 25% for the trolkin.

Exactly - so Rurik is losing 75% from his skill, and the trollkin loses 25%.

The proportions stay the same by dividing, but the absolute values mean that the higher skill loses out more.

Glad to hear from your play sessions that it went well though.

Mark

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

There is still a bladesharp spell, isn't there?

There is, but your chance to cast it will begin at (POW+CHA) I think, so you'd better not be doing it in combat...

Mark

 

[waiwode]

Honestly, I'm going to figure out Crit chances before combat begins. Then they're fixed. Static. Unmoving.

I'm not going to be juggling numbers all over the place once combat begins.

So after your Heroquesting Runelord with (weapon) 112% character defeats the 30% Trollkin, and then tries to take on Zorak Zoran himself (let's call him Mace 360%) ... I'm still going to allow you to have an 11% chance of a critical parry even though you only have a 28% chance* at success against him.

Similarly, if things like Darkness impose a penalty to your roll**, I'm not moving the darn critical numbers.

Doug.

*Halved twice to bring ZZ down under the 100% barrier.
** And I don't know if it does.

 

[Dr. Halflight]

Hmm...this halving does seem unusual. But I'll wait to see the book. Since I don't mind house-ruling, I might take a page out of HeroQuest & have the 100+% player cut their skill in half & then "bump" their result up by one level. So a Critical Failure becomes a Failure, a Failure a Success, etc.

But I'll wait until tuesday when I can actually get the rules.

Doc

 

[Dr. Halflight]

Honestly, I'm going to figure out Crit chances before combat begins. Then they're fixed. Static. Unmoving.

I'm not going to be juggling numbers all over the place once combat begins.

I agree completely with your approach Doug.

Doc

 

[Enpeze]

Honestly, I'm going to figure out Crit chances before combat begins. Then they're fixed. Static. Unmoving.

This means you are not giving situational modifiers during combat?

 

[Itto]

Your chance of getting a crit does not change or is effected in any way.

Combat works like this (Ruric 150% with spear, Trolkin 50% with club)

Ruric rolls 13, a crit.

The trolkin then trys to parry as a reaction . Which mean a Parry opposed roll takes place.

Ruric has to roll again ( this time skill is halved 75% due to the Very High Skill Rule) and gets a 50.
Trolkin rolls (25% due to the Very High Skill Rule) and gets a 20.

This means the result of the parry contest is that both succeed which translates to. Ruric still crits and the Trolkin gets his puny club in the way.

If Ruric rolled a 90 for his parry contest (a fail) and the trolkin got a 20(a success), then the Club would absorb twice its AP, but it would still be a crit.

I hope this helps, I've played 4 times in the past week, though never with skills over 100% but it all works sooo very very nicley. Though its is initally a bit odd having to roll your attack twice when someone parrys/dodges.