Question RE Sword, War

[MightyCthulhu]

The description says that the war sword may be used as a martial weapon if used one-handed mounted or two-handed on foot. I assume that if one tries to use it two-handed mounted or one-handed on foot it is considered an exotic weapon? Is this the intent? It seems odd to me. Also it seems that it can only be used as a finesse weapon when it is used in a martial fashion.

This just seems like a waste of an exotic weapon feat.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the war sword question was answered today in my "CONAN Errors Compiled" thread by MongoosePaul. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I think the war sword question was answered today in my "CONAN Errors Compiled" thread by MongoosePaul. :wink:

Warsword is finessable in two hands when being used as a martial weapon. It's situational in being used as a finesse weapon rather than an always on option.

 

[MightyCthulhu]

I think the war sword question was answered today in my "CONAN Errors Compiled" thread by MongoosePaul. :wink:

Warsword is finessable in two hands when being used as a martial weapon. It's situational in being used as a finesse weapon rather than an always on option.

I just don't understand the practicality of aquiring the exotic weapon feat for the war sword is all.

 

[Truckle the Uncivil]

*bump*

The War Sword is about the most versatile weapon of them all, especially if you have the Exotic proficiency (or Versatility):

- Two-handed Melee use for some added strength damage
- One-handed use if you fight from horseback; leaves the other hand free for bridles and shield
- One-handed Melee use with shield for extra DV
- One-handed Melee use with off-hand weapon, like short sword, for extra attacks and damage, or use with TW-Defense

A Greatsword may be better in raw damage output, but with a bastard sword you can respond so much better to different situations - provided you have the accessories.

BTW - this is off topic but I have to say it: great job Mongoose, setting all those weapon weights straight, which were just erratic in D&D.

 

[SableWyvern]

BTW - this is off topic but I have to say it: great job Mongoose, setting all those weapon weights straight, which were just erratic in D&D.

Yeah, right. A couple of pounds for a sword. :roll:

As a medieval re-enactor and professional blacksmith, I can tell you a real two-handed sword would have weighed at least 15 lbs, if not more.

And, movement should be reduced to 5' every two rounds in full plate, although chainmail is probably too encumbering under the current rules. Also, bows should ignore DR from chainmail.

Finally, as an experienced hunter, I have killed hundreds of wild buffalo with just a pocket-knife; this makes me realise just how silly the rules for leather armour really are.












:wink:


Seriously, I do have one qualm with the Conan weapons - that the crossbow got moved to martial, rather than simple. Anyone got an explanation for this?

 

[Sutek]

Because it's not simple.

Better answer: Bows are not prominent in Hyperborea. X-bows even less so. Because everyone mostly uses swords and hacking combat tactics, the more complicated the launching aparatus the less common it's manufacture and use is.

Conan is a "dark ages" type world and x-bows are more a product of technology.

...all guesses...

 

[Odovacar's Ghost]

Need to await for the conan buffs to reply to this one. I'd say, a form of cross bows could exist.

 

[Sutek]

Erm...well...they do exist. They are in the weapons list. They exist. No one said they didn't. :?

The question was "why are x-bows Martial weapons now and not Simple weapons".

I think it's more of a question of "why are normal bows Exotic and X-bows merely Martial." Probably to illustrate the increased level of competancy necessary to shoot a bow as compared to the more or less point and click nature of a x-bow.

No idea. Usually this is "feat tree" orientated.

 

[Truckle the Uncivil]

The construction of a crossbow is not simple -- neither is that of a good bow, btw -- but it's a lot more simple to use a crossbow than a bow.

Bow: insert arrow, tilt the bow just right, pull out, feel the entire draw weight in your arm and shoulder, aim quickly (before you start shaking) and let the string roll off your fingers. Practice several times a week for several months to master the bow.

Crossbow: draw string till it clicks. Insert arrow. Take all the time you need to aim. Pull trigger.

Add to that that crossbows can have much higher draw weight than bows, while the bolts themselves are shorter, which results in a much faster projectile, effectively creating a more stretched firing arc -> aim more directly.

All in all, it is a lot easier to hit a target with a crossbow than with a bow. It requires a lot less training and devotion to the weapon. Which is why d20 / D&D 3E correctly classified it a Simple Weapon.

In Conan, hunting bows are classified as simple weapons, which is arguable. All bows are equally difficult to master and should be classified as Martial weapons.

Effectively, those classifications only make a difference for the Scholar and Thief classes, and not an overwhelmingly large one at that. Change it, leave it, just as suits your campaign best.

 

[Sutek]

:?


yes. But that's not the point at all.

He was asking about the classification as Martial as opposed to Simple, as a x-bow is in D&D3.5.

I agree, a x-bow is easer to handle and a lot more intuitive than firing a bow, but ease of use has only a small ammount to do with weapon classification in the d20 system in general and Conan specifically.

 

[Orkin]

As a medieval re-enactor and professional blacksmith, I can tell you a real two-handed sword would have weighed at least 15 lbs, if not more.

Yeah, right. :roll:

Read and learn:
How much did historical swords weigh?

 

[Orkin]

Need to await for the conan buffs to reply to this one. I'd say, a form of cross bows could exist.

Absolutely. Read God in the Bowl for starters.

 

[Truckle the Uncivil]

@Sable Wyvern: 15 pounds? No, 50 is more like it!

Okay, really now, the heaviest sword of my collection weighs a whopping 8 pounds - a Greatsword, read: Scottish Claymore. But swords of that manufacturer are very much on the heavy side for sake of durability. Historically, the weights cited on the Arma page are quite well on the mark.

 

[SableWyvern]

Seems Truckle understood me, while Orkin certainly did not.

Note the: :wink:
Yeah, I kill wild buffalo with a pocket knife. :lol:


Regarding bows in the exotic category, I can't dispute this placement. The English lonbow, to be wielded to best efficiency, required training from a very early age. I think both Martial and Exotic could be argued.

As to simple/martial/exotic not being based on ease of use, I find that somewhat difficult to accept. In fact, I think that this is exactly what the categories represent, and the only thing I have come across that does not fit into this system is the crossbow in Conan.

That said, the fact that the crossbow remains a simpler weapon than other bows is probably enough for me to leave things as they are.

 

[Sutek]

Right. It's like this: weapon categories are based on use in the Conan universe. The major type of fighting person is a Soldier and that is what the word "Martial" equates to. Soldiers are more apt to have a x-bow handed to them instead of the longbows and other bows in the Exotic category, which are most likeky made by the weilder or someone close to him (historically and realistically speaking).

In terms of the differentiation for game mechanic purposes, I know that in the Stargate RPG, the classification of weaponry is set up to reflect Class Proficiencies in a more strict way than in Conan RPG. There is no "exotic" category and instead they classify stuff as Hurled, Handgun, Rifle, Melee, etc. Conan still restricts weapon use by Class, but in less of a strict sense (Soldiers don't start with Exotic Proficiency, for instance) to direct the Feat choices and sort of "preempt" odd combinations that will be out of context for the universe.

In Stargate it's even less clear too, because some weapons are classified as Hurled simply to make sense with the mechanic and with Class restrictions. Not many Classes have the Hurled proficiency to start with, so it mandates taking taht Feat to avoid penalties. Conan takes the opposite approach, almost, in that most weapons are available to everyone (as are most feats) but the classification of Exotic is reserved for the more rare weapons in the genre rather than any reflection of how hard it is to use them.

Wise choice. I still say, however, that archery should be a Finesse capable attack because it's a light weapon...but that's just me.

 

[Truckle the Uncivil]

Wise choice. I still say, however, that archery should be a Finesse capable attack because it's a light weapon...but that's just me.

Yeah, right. "Their armour is weakest at the neck and beneath the arms", or what? That, my friend, should be handled as Called Shot.

 

[Sutek]

...or behind the knee, or alnog the elbow or at the waist beneath the ribs...

That's a Finesse attack, not a called shot. Unless you somehow use the Cover rules to simulate called shots, it also doesn't look like such an attack is an option in Conan.

Where are the rules on Called Shots in Conan?

 

[Shonuff]

I still say, however, that archery should be a Finesse capable attack because it's a light weapon...but that's just me.

Actually, in Conan AE, there is a feat called Ranged Finesse. It looks a great deal like an old house combat manoeuvre I made up months ago and posted here.

Here was mine:

Combat Maneuver

Finesse Shot
By taking careful aim at your opponent while at close range, you attempt to have your ranged weapon attack strike between crevices and chinks of your enemy’s armour.

Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Dexterity 13+
Circumstances: Your opponent must be within 30 feet of you and you must spend a full-round action aiming, which provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening enemies.

Effect: Following your full-round spent aiming, your next attack is considered a finesse attack (however all normal modifiers to damage still apply - such as bow strength). If your ranged attack roll beats the target’s Defense Value by a number equal to at least the DR of the armour, that armour is then completely ignored. To successfully perform this maneuver, you must concentrate. If something interrupts your concentration while aiming your finesse shot, then you must make a Concentration skill check or lose the opportunity to complete your attack. (See the Concentration skill on page 88 for the DC of the check.)

---------------------
Example:
The thief and expert archer hides in the shadows close by while taking careful aim at the Zamoran Captain of the Guard as he addresses his troops. Finally, the thief lets lose the arrow from his Hrykanian bow. Although protected by both mail hauberk and breast plate, the shaft buries itself into the exposed neck of the Captain.

In a nut shell: the feat in C:AE basically has one take a full-round action to aim. If the target is within 30 feet and you make a Concentration skill check, then you may have this first shot work like a finesse attack.

Pretty neat

 

[Sutek]

Well....shut my mouf...

That's essentially the feat I was gonna create.

Those Mongoose guys....day so smart...

:lol: