New to Mongoose and new to Battlefield Evolution WOW

[mcb1968]

Hi all,

I have just recently dove into the BE WOW game after much encouragement from one of our local guys who has been doing GW's Great War WW1 game in 1/72 with me. Having been a fan and student of WW2 gaming for the better part of a quarter century, it was an easy sell.

My first WW2 tactical game was Avalon Hill's Squad Leader. IMHO still the definative game of infantry and armor combat in WW2. My first WW2 miniatures game was Tractics 2 by Gary Gygax. Sadly, I passed the game on to my best friends little brother before I went off to college and it vanished. WOW is my first foray back into skirmish level WW2 miniature combat in 20 years or so. Our preferred scale is 1/72 since it has the benefit of being cheap and easily obtainable. My group is building armies of all the major powers.

Overall, the game has SOLID mechanics and flows very well. As has been noted, the reaction system makes the game much more interactive and more accurately reflects the realitites of modern combat. No running up on a unit without taking some serious hits! The "Area of effect" rule is another inmprovement over the "I am shooting at this unit" that we have seen in most current games. Great job on both of those.

I do have some issues with some of the force tables and mixes. I think that the air, and offboard artillery are a bit too freely available at the platoon level even for late WW2. The OBA is very well done however and performs its function of force equalizer quite well. These assets would be better adressed as company level assets. Given the recommendation of 2,000 to 3,000 point armies, a company level force structure for all forces seems appropriate. The armor mix works pretty good for late war since by then most armies were fielding infantry to armor in a 1 unit to 1 unit ratio or at least close to it.

I am quite a fan of the Eastern Front and really think that the Russian force mix in the basic game is quite weak compared to everyone else. This is too bad given that good information on the Soviet forces of WW2 has been available for some time. I am currently writing house rules to address some of the areas I would like to see covered such as partisans, cavalry, and guard units.

I would like to see the new WOW supplements released as printed copies rather than pdf. I don't mind paying the extra bucks to have a book I can order and begin using. Of course, pdf has the advantage of being instantly available.

Thanks for a good entry into this category and I am looking forward to more development of this promising game line. I am especially interested in Early and Mid War. Can you say bring on the French?

 

[Rabidchild]

Welcome mcb1968! Great feedback on the game as a whole. I'm always interested in other people's experience since there seems to be a fairly big WW2 gaming population and it seems like they've all played many different systems.

I felt the armored combat side of things could be expanded on and that led me to write Tread-Head. Needless to say I look forward to hearing more about the units you're creating.

Cheers

 

[mcb1968]

So my Russian Armor is all assembled.

Right now my AFV's include:
2 ISU 122 (uses same stats as JS2, but subject to SP gun rules, see below)

2 SU 85

4 T34/85 (I will actually deploy these as an inpendent Platoon)

1 T34/76A command vehicle

I plan to further restrict SP Guns (any non turreted AFV with a non MG main armament) by not allowing them to fire in the turn they move. I'll let you know how it goes.

I also started painting my Russian infantry which currently is a combination of Italieri Russians and some 1/72 sized dime store soldiers in round helmets. Once painted, but look like they will roster together pretty well. I will be adding a platoon of Cossacks and using my own homebrew Cavalry rules.

 

[Agis]

Hi all,
I have just recently dove into the BE WOW game after much encouragement from one of our local guys who has been doing GW's Great War WW1 game in 1/72 with me. Having been a fan and student of WW2 gaming for the better part of a quarter century, it was an easy sell.

Welcome aboard mcb1968!

My first WW2 tactical game was Avalon Hill's Squad Leader. IMHO still the definative game of infantry and armor combat in WW2. My first WW2 miniatures game was Tractics 2 by Gary Gygax. Sadly, I passed the game on to my best friends little brother before I went off to college and it vanished. WOW is my first foray back into skirmish level WW2 miniature combat in 20 years or so. Our preferred scale is 1/72 since it has the benefit of being cheap and easily obtainable. My group is building armies of all the major powers.

If you are into 1/72 scale WaW is YOUR game. As long as you are basing your infantry minis individually all is fine. IMO the gun ranges looks even better in 20mm!

Overall, the game has SOLID mechanics and flows very well. As has been noted, the reaction system makes the game much more interactive and more accurately reflects the realitites of modern combat. No running up on a unit without taking some serious hits! The "Area of effect" rule is another inmprovement over the "I am shooting at this unit" that we have seen in most current games. Great job on both of those.

That was indeed one of the design goals, the game should be interactive. The reaction system is a good way for this.

I do have some issues with some of the force tables and mixes. I think that the air, and offboard artillery are a bit too freely available at the platoon level even for late WW2. The OBA is very well done however and performs its function of force equalizer quite well. These assets would be better adressed as company level assets. Given the recommendation of 2,000 to 3,000 point armies, a company level force structure for all forces seems appropriate. The armor mix works pretty good for late war since by then most armies were fielding infantry to armor in a 1 unit to 1 unit ratio or at least close to it.

If you do not like so much air and artillery support just tone it down. I still think to include the OPTION was a good idea, but honestly in my games I very rarely use artillery or even air units. At the core WaW is an infantry skirmish game with some armour support. But the game is definitely flexible enough to handle AFV clashes. That was one of the reason to included that option into my Vehicle Compendiums.

I am quite a fan of the Eastern Front and really think that the Russian force mix in the basic game is quite weak compared to everyone else. This is too bad given that good information on the Soviet forces of WW2 has been available for some time. I am currently writing house rules to address some of the areas I would like to see covered such as partisans, cavalry, and guard units.

If you want more armoured Soviet units feel free to check my Soviet Vehicle Compendium. Eventually I will even come to more infantry army lists, but the current release schedule keeps us pretty busy as it is…
http://www.agisn.de/html/a_d__publishing.html

I would like to see the new WOW supplements released as printed copies rather than pdf. I don't mind paying the extra bucks to have a book I can order and begin using. Of course, pdf has the advantage of being instantly available.

The official Mongoose supplements will be printed book (Pacific War etc.). The OGL supplements (Reuben’s Treadhead and my Vehicle books) are at the moment pdf only. I am still thinking about print on demand, but so far the books prizes for a good full colour print on demand book are just too high. We’ll see.

Thanks for a good entry into this category and I am looking forward to more development of this promising game line. I am especially interested in Early and Mid War. Can you say bring on the French?

Well then check Matt’s free early war German list in S&P 66…
And my books are already covering vehicles from the whole war.
:wink:

 

[mcb1968]

Checked out S&P 66 for the early war rules. I also took a look at issue 55. I plan to print the articles out so I can get a good look at them. I am contemplating the tank books, maybe next month. I just bulked up my russkies and added some fascists today

Do the unit cards come in "printer freindly" ie low ink usage formats? I see a lot of black background on the samples. Looks good but it would use a lot of ink.

 

[Agis]

Do the unit cards come in "printer freindly" ie low ink usage formats? I see a lot of black background on the samples. Looks good but it would use a lot of ink.

The A.D.Publishing unit cards are pure eye candy, so expect some ink usage! :wink:
We provide the book in a printer friendly and eye candy way, but for the unit cards we wanted them ajust nice.
But bear in mind that you do not have to print all the unit cards. Pick the one you like and only print the corresponding pages. One of the good things of e-boks.
The cards themselves are cleverly designed by Dave so that they print just in the right size to fold them and put them into a normal TCG card protector sleeve.

 

[mcb1968]

Hmmm gonna have to take a look I see . After flipping through the book back and forth for tonight's game, I need to do something.

We played a classic Eastern Front match up tonight with a platoon each of Russians and British with armor taking on a platoon of Waffen SS supported by a pair Panthers.

It turned into a real armored slugfest we had a pair of T-34/85's and a pair of Cromwells hunting the Panthers. The fellow running the Panthers did a good job using the Tread trait to shoot and scoot with his tanks.

The rules make armored combat very mobile and very deadly. The Cromwells stand a reasonable chance of turning a Panther shell, but the T-34's were pretty vulnerable. We did get some help from poor die rolls from the German.

We did a village fight with each building counting 50 points and both sides getting points for units destroyed. The allies had more building points, but the Germans took out a T-34 and Halftrack to give them a marginal win.

One items that could be considered for adjustment is the ability of most tank guns to react. Most have the Slow trait which does not allow them to fire in reaction.

It is common practice for tanks to work in pairs with one overwatching while the other moves. Mabye tanks could fire as a reaction and have to score a double hit against a moving target (except infantry). You might allow tanks to go on overwatch with a "Ready" command.

 

[Agis]

One items that could be considered for adjustment is the ability of most tank guns to react. Most have the Slow trait which does not allow them to fire in reaction.

It is common practice for tanks to work in pairs with one overwatching while the other moves. Mabye tanks could fire as a reaction and have to score a double hit against a moving target (except infantry). You might allow tanks to go on overwatch with a "Ready" command.

You might be interested in Reuben's Tread Head supplement... :wink:

I was always against vehicle reactions from a game balancing point. It would shift the game balance even further towards AFVs.
Otherwise - just try some house rules and have fun, it is your game after all!

 

[Schogun]

Hello all. I just bought BE:WaW. Now I'm looking at ADP's German and Russian vehicle supplements.

I noticed from the sample pages for the supplements that some of the stats have been changed from the core rulebook (T-34 for example has higher armor values). Since Agis was involved in writing the core rulebook, can we assume the revised stats are more accurate or up-to-date?

Also, I am interested in the expanded hit charts and traits in the Tread Head book. But if I get ADP's vehicle books, I don't need TH's vehicle data. I just want the charts.

I realize this is due to BE:WaW's open license, just like having 25 books about Trolls for D&D, but too much overlap is bad for my wallet! :lol:

What to do?

 

[Agis]

Hello all. I just bought BE:WaW. Now I'm looking at ADP's German and Russian vehicle supplements.

Welcome aboard! Looking at our supplements want help, buy it! 8) :wink: :wink:

I noticed from the sample pages for the supplements that some of the stats have been changed from the core rulebook (T-34 for example has higher armor values). Since Agis was involved in writing the core rulebook, can we assume the revised stats are more accurate or up-to-date?

Well, one thing up front. World at War book – page 5 to 34 – is written by Matt Sprange. Some of the advanced rules like Night Fighting, Parachute Deployment, Retreat, vehicles and Shooting with vehicles plus all the rest (page 41 to 140 of of the Battlefield Evolution: World at War) are all written by me. Each and every army lists and unit stat is my work. So if you do not like the way a specific tank is treated in the game – blame me! :wink:
The A.D.Publishing game stats are definitely more accurate and more up to date. While writing the army lists for the core book I focused on the units of that book. The goal was to balance these units, not all units of WW II.
While writing the A.D. Publishing books I was forced to take a comparative look at almost every AFV of WW II.
You can imagine that some changes were necessary.
However – and I really have to stress this point – the units from the A.D.P. books are are totally unofficial as all rules published under the Logo License are. The fact that I like them more (and I am biased here) does not make them better by default. Use them at your own risk!
So whenever you want to play in a Mongoose sanctioned tournament please stick to the official rules!

Also, I am interested in the expanded hit charts and traits in the Tread Head book. But if I get ADP's vehicle books, I don't need TH's vehicle data. I just want the charts.

That is something for Rabidchild to answer... :wink:

I realize this is due to BE:WaW's open license, just like having 25 books about Trolls for D&D, but too much overlap is bad for my wallet! :lol:
What to do?

Difficult question. I am totally biased here: I like my books more! IMO you do not need any other. :wink:
But to be honest Rabbit Child's book has some nice ideas, and if you like to play more with AFVs it is a nice addition. If you want as much as possible vehicle stats for your money that are designed by the same guy and by the same principals as the core rulebook , buy mine.
Ahh, heck - buy all of them... 8)

 

[Schogun]

Ahh, heck - buy all of them... 8)

Somehow I knew you would say that.

 

[Agis]

Ahh, heck - buy all of them... 8)

Somehow I knew you would say that.

Yeah, I can be very subtle... 8)

 

[Rabidchild]

Ah, he only wants the juicy parts does he? Maybe that should be my next book: Tread-Head Lite.

As Agis says, giving vehicles the ability to react would tip the balance of a mixed game far into their favor. While the units in Tread-Head are fairly close to those in Agis' vehicle compendiums, mine are written to operate within the Tread-Head armylists, which give them some new abilities balanced within that structure. For example a US tank destroyer unit could be led by a scout jeep and therefore deploy in ambush.

As much as I have to say that my book is written to be used as a whole, what you are looking for might just be available in the preview pages on the wargame vault site in my signature.