Motion to Change the beam trait.

[emperorpenguin]

Broken, in your eyes maybe? As you can see in the above posts, not everyone agrees.

not everyone ever agrees reaverman.... :roll:

However look at the number of complaints about "broken" ships, unused ships

 

[Reaverman]

So play more campaign games. Then you'll see them used.

On the other hand, if it had had the extra time and efford of seperate multiple rolls for every shot, maybe it just would never have gained enough popularity to ever be noticed.

Wulf

Point 1 was used possibly by you among others to justify Minbari damage values and the state of the ancients, not good enough I'm afraid, most people do not play campaigns, poor advice

Point 2 is absolute nonsense, ifs buts and maybes

Point 1-Yes we do

 

[emperorpenguin]

Point 1-Yes we do

So you're most people suddenly? :roll:

Why do I bother trying to reason with some of the..........

 

[emperorpenguin]

This is from the "what type of game do you play" thread

How do you usually play
SFOS campaign
13% [ 5 ]
SFOS one off/tournament
55% [ 21 ]
Tourney list campaign
5% [ 2 ]
Tourney list one off/tournament
23% [ 9 ]
ACTA campaign
2% [ 1 ]

Total Votes : 38


that's almost 4 out of 5 for one-off games

 

[Burger]

Broken, in your eyes maybe? As you can see in the above posts, not everyone agrees.

not everyone ever agrees reaverman.... :roll:

Yes, Id love to have useful lower hull ships. 5% [ 2 ]
Yes, but not until ACTA v2.0 8% [ 3 ]
No, I like my lances of death like they are. 72% [ 26 ]
No, I have a bettersuggestion to limit beams vs low hull ships 13% [ 5 ]

25 people agree with him.

 

[Black Omega]

I haven't played in a campaign yet. But EP i don't really see where you are coming from about half the fleets being useless.

I regularly play EA now and given the option i usually take a mix of no more more than 1 or 2 high-hulled big ships. I've been stung too many times in the past with that one unlucky critical getting past the high hull value and taking out the ship. As a result the majority of my fleet i will take a greater number of the lower hulled ships which are smaller lighter and more maneouvrable, giving me more ships on the table and a bit more tactical flexibility.

Honestly when i am selecting my ships the first thing i look at is the weapons specs and then the speed and damage/crew levels and only then check out the hull value. Its really not that big a deal.

I would argue that anyone who moans about their fleets useless ships really hasn't stuck with using those ships long enough to work out tactics intricacies etc.

 

[emperorpenguin]

25 people agree with him.

So do I so well done Burger! :roll: I don't see the problem being beam weapons!

 

[emperorpenguin]

I haven't played in a campaign yet. But EP i don't really see where you are coming from about half the fleets being useless.

I would argue that anyone who moans about their fleets useless ships really hasn't stuck with using those ships long enough to work out tactics intricacies etc.

I take offence at the last line, it is trumped out FAR too often and really is stupid.

I am a playtester so I've played a lot more games than you in a lot more combinations in a lot more fleets. I know that there are ships which are just worthless or just not good enough (some are too good) in the lists.

I have done fairly well in tournaments I played in but I have seen from those tournaments that there is a definite pattern to fleet choices. Hull 6 and beam heavy (unless Minbari/ISA)

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Point 1 was used possibly by you among others to justify Minbari damage values and the state of the ancients, not good enough I'm afraid, most people do not play campaigns, poor advice

It doesn't matter how many people do, some people do, and they should have the ships to do so without the needless complication of an extra roll for every weapon attack.

Point 2 is absolute nonsense, ifs buts and maybes

And was made in reply to your equally unsupported claim that, if attacks were already split, we would be defending the two-roll system.

Wulf

 

[emperorpenguin]

It doesn't matter how many people do, some people do, and they should have the ships to do so without the needless complication of an extra roll for every weapon attack

And was made in reply to your equally unsupported claim that, if attacks were already split, we would be defending the two-roll system.

Wulf

Point 2 because there seems to be a number of people on here who rush to oppose every proposed change to the game regardless

Point 1 you just don't get it Wulf the majority of people don't or can't play campaigns and your response essentially says "tough" NOT GOOD ENOUGH

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Point 1 you just don't get it Wulf the majority of people don't or can't play campaigns and your response essentially says "tough" NOT GOOD ENOUGH

But your major point of complaint is that Hull 4 ships are useless IN TOURNAMENTS. Fine, don't use them, They do just fine in campaign games. This is not a Tournament-only game.

Wulf

 

[Burger]

Who said hull 4 is useless in tourney's? Reaverman did pretty well in Q-Con I'd say, winning 2 of 3 games. 7 of his 10 ships had hull 4.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Point 1 you just don't get it Wulf the majority of people don't or can't play campaigns and your response essentially says "tough" NOT GOOD ENOUGH

But your major point of complaint is that Hull 4 ships are useless IN TOURNAMENTS. Fine, don't use them, They do just fine in campaign games. This is not a Tournament-only game.

Wulf

ONE-OFF games Wulf and you continue to think that the game should be based around campaign play, see where that got us with Minbari/Vorlons/ISA/Shadows as they stand and tell me there was no problem Wulf :roll:

 

[Black Omega]

Who said hull 4 is useless in tourney's? Reaverman did pretty well in Q-Con I'd say, winning 2 of 3 games. 7 of his 10 ships had hull 4.

I can vouch for that...and for the pure scare value of seeing his opponents face off against an entire armada of Narn ships.

I'd also point out that the guy in the Tourny who took a high-hulled super beam EA Warlock came dead last!

 

[emperorpenguin]

I'd also point out that the guy in the Tourny who took a high-hulled super beam EA Warlock came dead last!

I'm not surprised 4 out of 5 points tied up in one boresighted ship!

doesn't prove a thing other than you need initiative sinks!

 

[Black Omega]

doesn't prove a thing other than you need initiative sinks!

what you mean like cheap, small expendable ships of say.....oh i dunno low priority level and hull 4?

 

[Wulf Corbett]

ONE-OFF games Wulf and you continue to think that the game should be based around campaign play, see where that got us with Minbari/Vorlons/ISA/Shadows as they stand and tell me there was no problem Wulf :roll:

Both I and Mongoose initially believed the game should be based around campaign play. I have no financial incentive to change my mind, unlike them. The whole game would be fundamentally changed, and I believe for the better, by a simple 'Rarity factor'. No more than one Primus (to take the first example to mind) may be purchased for every 5 ships in a fleet. That would encourage use of smaller ships, they're cheap...

And problems with individual ships are not the same category of problem as ideas about changing fundamental mechanics in the game.

Wulf

 

[emperorpenguin]

doesn't prove a thing other than you need initiative sinks!

what you mean like cheap, small expendable ships of say.....oh i dunno low priority level and hull 4?

not when you have access to hull 5 and 6 initiative sinks! Nice try!

 

[Burger]

doesn't prove a thing other than you need initiative sinks!

what you mean like cheap, small expendable ships of say.....oh i dunno low priority level and hull 4?

Or like TenaciousB, who played Dilgar, had 3x Patrol level ships and 3x hull 6 ships... and came 7th?

 

[emperorpenguin]

Both I and Mongoose initially believed the game should be based around campaign play. I have no financial incentive to change my mind, unlike them. The whole game would be fundamentally changed, and I believe for the better, by a simple 'Rarity factor'. No more than one Primus (to take the first example to mind) may be purchased for every 5 ships in a fleet. That would encourage use of smaller ships, they're cheap...

And problems with individual ships are not the same category of problem as ideas about changing fundamental mechanics in the game.

Wulf

But you can't focus a game on something which 80% of its players don't use! If they did the game will die.

Every game changes mechanics when necessary and every time there are die-hards opposing it....