How fare the Centauri?

[silashand]

Just a thought that came up in another thread. The comment was made that the Centauri are in some manner exceptionally strong, yet I haven't seen them do all that well myself. Perhaps I am missing something or are they simply good against certain fleets and poor vs others? I know the Demos is regarded by some as a bit too good, but what else?

Anyway, just curious what others think.

Cheers, Gary

 

[Da Boss]

The Lion of the Galaxy benefit from having good or better ships at every level - War is the weakest and its not really bad - just not great.

The wide choice means they can fight most if not all fleets with a good chance of winning.

There are a vast variety of possible and competative Centauri fleets

Tweek the Demos and I dont think they are broken.............or if they are - no more than the Minbari and ISA (I don't think either are)

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Centauri are strong if played well and the dice favour you - like everything in this game. You're very vulnerable to critical hits, especially so since Centauri have below average damage scores.

Your main weapon, ion cannons, struggle to hit hull 6 targets, even with twin-linked. You lack beams and have few SAP weapons.

That's it, really.

 

[inq101]

Massed DD weapon systems is scary to face, but rarely seem to do the damage they should when you're actually pulling the trigger. The fear of them often means my opponents dump a load of fighters on intercept duty which promptly get blown to peaces letting the Centauri win the fighter war.

Hull 6 fleets are difficult. Uber-manouverable fleets (ISA, Vree, Shadows) can be a problem. The fleets strength is around skirmish and raid (which gives them strong I-sinks) but it can fight at all levels. It also needs a bit more tactical thought than line up and shoot. A strong fleet, but not overpowered (if the Demos is sorted out).

Tom

 

[Humbaba]

Don't forget the excellent Kutai at Patrol level!

 

[David Anla Shok']

My last fight playing Centauri, my opponent brought an Armageddon level ship while I did not. I had a couple of Battle level ships but the preponderance of the fleet was Raid and Skirmish. He never really had the initiative, and I got to shoot the pants off of him from many different angles.

 

[CaptBavo]

The Centauri player I play against has been personally blessed by the dice gods, so at times guys in my group have complained that they are overpowered but they are not. Usually in my battles with him it comes down to the wire who will win.

I do think the demos does need to be knocked down a tad though.

 

[ATN082268]

My last fight playing Centauri, my opponent brought an Armageddon level ship while I did not. I had a couple of Battle level ships but the preponderance of the fleet was Raid and Skirmish. He never really had the initiative, and I got to shoot the pants off of him from many different angles.

Numerical superiority winning the day in ACTA, how can it be?

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

 

[David Anla Shok']

My last fight playing Centauri, my opponent brought an Armageddon level ship while I did not. I had a couple of Battle level ships but the preponderance of the fleet was Raid and Skirmish. He never really had the initiative, and I got to shoot the pants off of him from many different angles.

Numerical superiority winning the day in ACTA, how can it be?

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

The Great Maker was with us, you unbeliever ;O

 

[Foxmeister]

You're very vulnerable to critical hits, especially so since Centauri have below average damage scores.

I've just done a quick comparison between Narn, 3rd age EA, and Centauri, and if you factor out the ships with active defences such as dodge and stealth, and those that are just plain silly when looking for an "average" (e.g. Explorer), I'd say the Centauri pretty much come out of it as average for damage levels at most PLs.

At Raid, I'm looking at averages of 33.8, 33, and 43 for Centauri, EA, and Narn respectively. If you drop the T'Loth and T'Rann from the Narn (arbitrary I know, but in my experience they are rarely seen in Narn fleets except in very specific circumstances), the Narn average drops down to 33 too. At Battle, you are looking at 52, 48 and 55 respectively, and Skirmish 21.67, 19, and 24.83.

Granted, 3 fleets is by no means an exhaustive sample and it is certainly true that simply ignoring ships with stealth and dodge is probably an over-simplification as I'm not consider the EAs interceptors, but just flicking through the fleet lists my gut feeling is the Centauri having average damage values does carry through across all the fleets for the most part.

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

interesting how you get such a high score for centauri at battle level when one of the ships has 26 damage, one has 40 and only the remaining 2 have above 50. would have thought their average battle level was around the 40-45 mark tops.

your also have to remember with centauri that they have very little defenses (even the primus doesnt have interceptors) when compared to earth. and they also have alot less fighters than most other races. the 1st ship to carry fighters is the balvarin and thats at raid, where no other ships carry them, where EA get fighters on ships from patrol upwards and narn get them from skirmish. then at battle the ships generally carry only 2 fighters where EA carry average 4 per ship. when you consider the centauri dont have much AF or even rear guns fighters can be a real weakness for them

 

[Foxmeister]

interesting how you get such a high score for centauri at battle level when one of the ships has 26 damage, one has 40 and only the remaining 2 have above 50. would have thought their average battle level was around the 40-45 mark tops.

Not really - I specifically said I was factoring out (i.e. ignoring) those ships with active defences like dodge and stealth which means the Dargan and Liati are out for the basis of this comparison.

On your second point, I did also state that not including inteceptors was an oversimplification, however the same weaknesses that you list for the Centauri can also be generally levelled at the Narn too.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Burger]

and they also have alot less fighters than most other races.

Yes, but how much better are those fightes?
Razik is has +3 dogfight which is as good as it gets apart from Psi Corps.

And the Rutarian, well what can I say about that! Not so much a "jack of all trades", more like an ace of all trades! +2 dogfight. Hull 5 to protect from AF and e-mines (well, as much protection as any fighter gets except the Porfatis!!). Stealth to protect from main weapons. 4" weapon to keep out of AF range. Fantastic firepower, almost as much as a Sky Serpent. Throw in dodge 2+ and speed 12, and you've easily got the best fighte in the game, IMO.

 

[Locutus9956]

Razik is has +3 dogfight which is as good as it gets apart from Psi Corps.

Tishat - +4 dogfight


But anyway to answer some other points:

Sorry but if youre going to compare averages for hull value from fleet to fleet you cant just arbitrarily ignore those ships that are different. Yes the Liati and Dargan have active defences but thats really besides the point. Every EA ship has interceptors yet I dont see those being ignored.

Centauri ARE a little fragile when compared to the EA and Narns etc but I do think theyre not NEARLY as fragile as some of the Centauri players seem to think. However their real weakness is limited arcs and lack of high pentertation ability on the majority of their weapons.

They are however, a very strong fleet I feel. They DO have a signifigant fighter weakness though, yes they have good fighters but very few of their ships carry any at all and those few that do carry very little. They have a decent carrier but it's really just a carrier and nothing else so your giving up a signifigant chunk of firepower for those fighters if you take one.

I still maintain though that the only ship thats actually a problem is the Demos and even that is easily fixed by just lopping off a couple of AD from its Ion Cannons.

All things considered, the only major issue with any particular I've had was with the Gaim, and theyre a hell of alot better (though Ive still got some issues with them but thats another story)

 

[Foxmeister]

Sorry but if youre going to compare averages for hull value from fleet to fleet you cant just arbitrarily ignore those ships that are different. Yes the Liati and Dargan have active defences but thats really besides the point. Every EA ship has interceptors yet I dont see those being ignored.

Actually I disagree. How much is Dodge 4+ worth in terms of damage points. How much is Stealth 4+ worth? You can work it out if you wish, but it's likely to be somewhere in the region of 25% to 50% (lower for Stealth and higher for Dodge). Either way, they do have a "value" in terms of damage points. Interceptors are much more difficult to work out, but it is generally easier to overwhelm them that it is to say counter Dodge especially when the primary armament for many races are beams. Given that most Centauri ships don't have dodge or stealth, I think it's a reasonable simplification. In addition, I also included Narn in my comparison, and they don't have interceptors either.

Feel free to disagree though, but I'm pretty certain that a quantative analysis of the fleets, taking everything into consideration, would probably show the Centauri as having pretty much average damage points - however, I'm not that interested in the discussion to spend the time working it out!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Locutus9956]

Like I said, I acutally DONT think the ceutauri are the glass hammers some folks claim them to be. Theyre just hammers period. Its just a case that some other fleets are several hammers pointing in all directions with insect repellant....

 

[Shadow Queen]

Centauri are strong if played well and the dice favour you -

And have Drakh help.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Centauri are strong if played well and the dice favour you -

And have Drakh help.

Never had Drakh help. Just played them smart and offered a ritual sacrifice to Joboo for hot dice. Seems to work out pretty well. It's a good fleet, with many options. It's pricy if you want to build everything that is available but it can be tailored to fight pretty much anyone if you do build it up.

 

[Iain McGhee]

interesting how you get such a high score for centauri at battle level when one of the ships has 26 damage, one has 40 and only the remaining 2 have above 50. would have thought their average battle level was around the 40-45 mark tops.

your also have to remember with centauri that they have very little defenses (even the primus doesnt have interceptors) when compared to earth. and they also have alot less fighters than most other races. the 1st ship to carry fighters is the balvarin and thats at raid, where no other ships carry them, where EA get fighters on ships from patrol upwards and narn get them from skirmish. then at battle the ships generally carry only 2 fighters where EA carry average 4 per ship. when you consider the centauri dont have much AF or even rear guns fighters can be a real weakness for them

They do have Maximus escorts that can grant Interceptors and AF to other ships, and of course you can always task fighter flights with interceptor duty if needed. The escorts are pretty much a must-have for larger battles to cover your cruisers and the Balvarin carrier is cheap enough to field in most Raid+ battles where you expect to need fighter cover (and Sentri fighters are at least as capable as nearly all the other races standard fighters, better than most with the Balvarin's help). Although most ships don't have AF, those Ion Cannon batteries put out enough AD that they can usually kill at least a few flights most turns. Granted that at lower PLs you'll have trouble against races with good fighters and that a number of smaller Centauri ships don't have rear (or often side) weapons which can give you problems with blind spots and fighter attacks. At higher PLs your heavier ships should be able to cover each other most of the time (I try to keep them within Ion Cannon range of each other as much as possible).

 

[Davesaint]

Centauri are strong if played well and the dice favour you - like everything in this game. You're very vulnerable to critical hits, especially so since Centauri have below average damage scores.

Your main weapon, ion cannons, struggle to hit hull 6 targets, even with twin-linked. You lack beams and have few SAP weapons.

That's it, really.

How do the Centauri lack Beams?

Darkener - 3AD
Sullust - 4AD
Primus - 6AD
Magnus - 2AD
Dargan - 3AD
Liati - 4AD

Dave