High Guard or "Adventures in Imperial Navy"

[Kilgs]

I discussed in another post what I was hoping to see in future products.

SUMMARY OF POST

The ships still have about four options and feel as futuristic as a Studebaker. Do I want a laser or a missile? Do I want a stateroom or cargo space? C’mon… pick up a copy of Janes and take a look at the hardware out there. Sensors are so archaic as to be outmatched by a 21st century 747 jetliner. Dang people! If an F-18’s electronics is light-years ahead of a spaceship then we have some problems. I was really looking forward to some changes in the ship system. Copied and pasted from CT.

As a minor observation, in a game where the player character does not advance in strength, skill or power as a direct result from the adventuring… you have to offer something else. Material wealth is just a means of keeping score if all I can do is buy a Autopistol. Give us some gizmos!

I have no problem injecting cash into Traveller (it’s a habit of mine). But I did pay $40 for a 200p black and white version of CT with a fresh coat of paint. I’ve held off on Mercenary simply because I’m not sure what it’s going to add to my game. The reports are rather bland. But the most important supplement to me is going to be High Guard… make it worth it, make spaceships fun!

3. Spaceships, people. They’re the reason we play space games. We love them. We want to tweak them and play with them and customize them. We want to make them our own individual expressions… give us the chance.

Having received my High Guard, I think it was advertised wrong. If the book you're looking for is "Adventures in the Imperial Navy", then this is your book. It's most likely an excellent resource for that type of game. The capital ship rules look interesting, the combat looks interesting.

But it's pretty damn useless to the average Traveller. It doesn't have any more than 4 pages of new stuff for the average ship. It (I sense a pattern) copies and pastes from CT for "Black Globes" and space combat and a number of other areas. C'mon!

We're still playing with four options for weaponry... oh wait, torpedoes were added. Yay.

Sensors and space communication are still in the range of the Apollo 13. Shipboard computers have all the power of an HP hand calculator. No new programs for ship computers. We have no information on hijacking ships, marine actions or anything else that may assist an Imperial Navy game.

Character generation is needlessly complicated and superficial. Who really is planning on letting their characters take "Starship Architect?" or "Admiral"? The only place that makes the slightest bit of sense is in an Imperial Navy game.

I don't want to be completely negative. This game looks like a great resource for someone who wants to play a game where the players are still in the Navy. In fact, that could have been the entire focus of the book and I just expected something different and wrong. But, even for an "Adventures in the Navy" book, there are numerous things missing.

Not to mention 20 pages of ship deckplans... isn't that the entire purpose of "Traders and Gunboats"? Why is it in this book?

As for what I was expecting, this book is really not going to spend much time off my bookcase. We need to see some original and creative work for this line. I already own the LBB's, I don't want to pay to see it again.

So, unfortunately, HG gets a "Fail" from me. I won't be buying "sight unseen" anymore until Mongoose gets off their grognard butts and updates the game for the 21st century.

 

[zanwot]

We seem to be about 1 in five people to agree with you. Let's face it: Mongoose is *just* doing Traveller on the cheap, big time copying from CT in order to save effort and take no risks.

All in all not much chance that they change their policy I would say. Pitty though, very big pitty.
I'm still buying their books for now, notably because I don't have CT otherwise than in a CD or in my memory, but it is such a big miss. Modernized Traveller would have been mindblowing, at least... Such a waste.
And honestly any other setting, such as B5, will only change some names here and there as any dramatic change would require a different core rulebook...

 

[rust]

While I see your point, I think Mongoose has to do what makes economic
sense, and in this respect they most probably made the right decisions -
Mongoose Traveller doubtless is a success the way it is.

Besides, it is not that difficult to expand the core rules and build upon
them, for example with material from GURPS Traveller, and there are
several third party publications "in the pipeline" that aim at "moderni-
zing" Mongoose Traveller.

So, I see the core rules as the foundation for the kind of game I want
to build upon it, and foundations need to be sound, but they are rarely
exciting. :wink:

 

[Stainless]

Don't forget the Marc Miller-factor. I'm assuming Mongoose have to get approval from MWM at some level, all be it with more latitude than your average Traveller publisher. MWM has a proven track record of being conservative and stuck in the 70's so PART of what you are seeing MAY be due to this.

 

[rust]

Yep, much will depend on what is published and when in the near future,
and how good the third party support will be.

As soon as Mongoose Traveller has got something that is unique and not
available for any other of the Traveller editions, the situation might im-
prove to the point where there are more obvious reasons to prefer Mon-
goose Traveller over other versions.

But right now I think Mongoose is still working on establishing the foun-
dation of the game, necessarily repeating much that has already been
done before in other editions, and I think one should give Mongoose
both the benefit of the doubt and sufficient time to do this.

And accept the necessity to do some houseruling until some more mate-
rial has been published. :wink:

 

[dmccoy1693]

Don't forget the Marc Miller-factor. I'm assuming Mongoose have to get approval from MWM at some level, all be it with more latitude than your average Traveller publisher. MWM has a proven track record of being conservative and stuck in the 70's so PART of what you are seeing MAY be due to this.

I believe Mongoose needs to have all generic Traveller and OTU books approved by Miller. So Universe of B5, for example, does not need approval, but everything else they've done thus far for it needs his approval. I could be wrong on this (since I am not Mongoose and have not seen the contract), but this is my educated guess based on various statements made since Aug '07

 

[rust]

My problem is that aside from a few "jewels" (Expanded CharGen) the MGT rules are basically 1970s stuff when it comes the the "gears and construction" chapters.

I agree wholeheartedly.

In fact, I almost only use the character generation system, plus some
"quick and dirty" shipbuilding, of Mongoose Traveller, and otherwise
turn to GURPS for the technology and world building, and BRP for most
of the roleplaying system.

However, I still have "high hopes" for Beltstrike, Scout and Babylon 5
(and 2320 AD, if Mongoose really does it), and I am very much looking
forward to Flynn's robot guide and to Phil's Dark Star Catalog to provi-
de some less outdated Traveller equipment.

But I have to admit that I will probably stop buying Traveller stuff ex-
cept career oriented material like the excellent Career Book 1 if I get
disappointed by the development of Mongoose Traveller, and Merce-
nary (which I do not need for my campaign) and High Guard (where I
prefer GURPS Traveller Starships and GURPS Spaceships) did not ma-
ke it onto my shopping list.

 

[Allensh]

Given the content of the original High Guard book, I'm not sure how anyone could expect it NOT to be about the Navy...the original certainly was.

Allen

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I like the new Capital Ship design. It seems very elegant and a lot simpler than the old HG. The Compartment idea is great and FEELS right.

I too would have liked to see more options for ships, but that is why we now have the OGL.

 

[Kilgs]

Given the content of the original High Guard book, I'm not sure how anyone could expect it NOT to be about the Navy...the original certainly was.

Allen

Agreed. I was definitely looking for more of a "Pimp my Trader" book and HG, both new and old, were not in that vein.

Even so, I think the failure to expand on weaponry is a severe flaw, and the Naval character expansion stuff isn't very helpful.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Actually, since I am running a Naval Campaign (in the TNE1248 setting by Avenger Enterprises), that part is quite helpful.

My characters have just completed 1 term and are about to start their second term. I can use the details from the expanded character creation to fill in some of the details of my adventure. It gives me a framework from which to hang their adventures.

 

[captainjack23]

Agreed. I was definitely looking for more of a "Pimp my Trader" book and HG, both new and old, were not in that vein.

Even so, I think the failure to expand on weaponry is a severe flaw, and the Naval character expansion stuff isn't very helpful.

Well the character creation is basic to any of the expanded career suppliments in traveller (and most RPGS suppliments, actually), and while they didn't add any new whizzy weapons technology *, they did add tons of new weapons sytems, and some new tech, also.

Well, while what you describe is needed, I'm not sure that HG was ever intended to meet that need. While traveller has lots of trader/vagabond/firefly style campaign history, it also has lots of history of supporting military campaigns; plus, there still is the wargame side of traveller, at the least to resolve ship combat. And

I see where you are disapointed, but I really don't think high guard could , should or was intended to be the product that some of the posters here wanted, or even just to have simply been ship option catalogue.

That said, what does HG provide ?

At least a dozen new weapons and weapons systems (barbettes, torpedoes, railguns,new bays, new missiles, spinal weapons an abstract power/weaponry system,
a large ship combat system,
a vector based movement system for ships ,
a more detailed RPG combat system as well;
all the character classes,
a ship design system for small, player sized and capital ships that is mostly integrated and consistent with the core rules
about 30 options for military and paramilitary ship systems (sensors, bridges, internal structures, enhanced computers, ship fittings, fins, rockets, ejection pods, you name it.)
Some new ships at all scales, and adventure generation for naval adventures.

Pretty good...for what it was intended to be, from my point of view..


*and who can blame them after the fracas about non OTU gizmotech weaponry in Merc.

 

[Delerium]

I can sympathise with the OP.

But there again. Mongoose Traveller, is STILL an RPG set in the "Far Future" from a 1970's viewpoint.


"Captain! Incoming missile!"
"Oh right. Let me just finish my lunch, Ensign"
Boom
"Outer hull shows signs of significant scratching and some of your lunch has been knocked onto the floor sir."
"What else does the computer report?"
"I don't know sir, it's just crashed with an Out of Memory Error #5"


Don't get me wrong, I like Traveller but ... you know what I mean

 

[MongooseMatt]

Even so, I think the failure to expand on weaponry is a severe flaw,

By this time next year, you will have all the new weaponry, plus modernisation and otherwise, that you could possibly wish for Traveller. The first few releases are being used to set various boundaries for the rules and establish the classic OTU - basically, laying the foundations we will be building upon.

Remember, we have a ten year licence for this game, and will be in no hurry to simply punch 'cool' books out. We are far more interested in doing it properly (we actually have an aim _not_ to bring out a new edition of the rules in the next ten years, so the core rulebook you have now will be just as valid in 2018).

You want cool weapons and other updates? Just be patient - we are working on them right now!

 

[Kilgs]

Message received and acknowledged. But, dagnabbit, I want to play right now

 

[Alan Hume]

WooHoo,
that is good news

Note to self: must try and be more patient

 

[apoc527]

My feeling is that the B5 book will take "Traveller" to a whole new level. I have seen many versions of Traveller, and so far, nothing from Mongoose has disappointed me...insofar as I'm looking for "Traveller." It sounds to me like some of you guys want Neo-Traveller, which Matt says you'll be getting.

Personally, I play Star*Drive and use the original Alternity system developed by TSR, but canceled over 10 years ago because of 3rd Edition D&D. Alternity is a great sci-fi system with lots of updated technology. The basic setting, Star*Drive, is basically Traveller + Cyberpunk with truly modern technobabble. Anyway, I'm excited for MGT to continue to develop because I am beginning to like the "less is more" school of game design. (Not saying that MGT isn't crunchy--it is--but in play, the GM has a lot more room to wiggle and the books give you "just enough" to start from).

 

[captainjack23]

Sensors are so archaic as to be outmatched by a 21st century 747 jetliner. Dang people! If an F-18’s electronics is light-years ahead of a spaceship then we have some problems. I was really looking forward to some changes in the ship system.

An F-18 can track a missile moving at 6G constant acceleration out to 30,000 miles ? And then guide a countermissle to intercept ? And it's not even our best all-weather superiority interceptor ? YIKES ! No wonder the Soviets quit the game. :wink:

 

[rust]

Ah, well ... take the sensor technology of the F-18, expand the system to
one that requires 2 dtons / roughly 27 cubic meters, give it an antenna si-
ze equivalent to that of a Traveller ship, and then compare the technolo-
gies again ...

 

[ZobMan]

For me part of the fun of traveller that it's a vision of the far future as seen from the late 1970s when the first game was published. That's why nanotech, full-on virtual reality, AI, and especially comparison to modern techs don't really fit properly. Darn it it doesn't have to be realistic! If our species survives for another 5000 years or whatever there's no point trying to guess how things might develop, so essentially anything goes. Why shouldn't spaceships be in some ways inferior to F-18s? Why would people fight with laser guns when you could use a cheap undectable miniaturised deathdroid? Why have human crew at all when ships will surely be able to fly themselves? The answer to all of the above is that it makes a better game!