Epic Traveller Campaigns. Which is Best?

[ottarrus]

Not to spoil anything, but I think you are going to be in luck...

Something to look forward to. Thanks Matt!

 

[shammond42]

Easy pick of Deepnight Revelation for me. I find that exploration campaigns are hard to to do in the OTU. DNR delivers that in spades, and in a way I couldn't have done on my own. DNR is also unique in that it focuses on a capital ship, letting you do a bridge crew campaign. I get why PoD is popular, it is excellent. For me DNR is a game I've always wanted to run, but wasn't sure how.

 

[ottarrus]

I would love to see a Zhodani-centered campaign, that won't be about the War or the Core Expeditions.

There's a great Zhodani adventure outline in CT Aliens 4: Zhodani. It's called 'Vlezpridliashav'. In it, Imperial citizens are kidnapped by a Zhodani noble and taken into the Consulate to complete a mission. While not solely centered on the Zhodani and their culture, it's a good middle ground.

I admit to being fascinated by the Zho's and their culture. The idea of RP'ing a culture that is totally honest would be really interesting to play in. I think it would take a group that was more mature and willing to play along than most Traveller games. And I'm not sure how a mixed group of Zho's would play out. The PC proles would end up surrendering a lot of agency to PC Noble.

 

[Vormaerin]

There's also some Zho focused adventures in "Alien Realms" IIRC, one is diplomatic and the other might be kind of mercenary. But they do exist.

 

[alex_greene]

There's a great Zhodani adventure outline in CT Aliens 4: Zhodani. It's called 'Vlezpridliashav'. In it, Imperial citizens are kidnapped by a Zhodani noble and taken into the Consulate to complete a mission. While not solely centered on the Zhodani and their culture, it's a good middle ground.

I admit to being fascinated by the Zho's and their culture. The idea of RP'ing a culture that is totally honest would be really interesting to play in. I think it would take a group that was more mature and willing to play along than most Traveller games. And I'm not sure how a mixed group of Zho's would play out. The PC proles would end up surrendering a lot of agency to PC Noble.

You could take a leaf from Ars Magica, and set up a Zhodani Traveller group as some form of troupe, with the players mostly running Nobles, and occasionally having to switch to Intendants each responsible for a group of Proles, or even a group of Proles taking orders from an Intendant or even directly from a Noble.

 

[Sigtrygg]

You do know that proles can be managers, military officers and the like?
A noble lieutenant would have to follow the orders of a prole general for example.

 

[steelbrok]

Heavy handed hint: I would really like to see a campaign on 'The Traveller's Adventure's' scale in a subsector away from the Marches and maybe even outside of the Imperium. A subsector in Mendan Sector where the players deal with the Julian Protectorate, the Empire of Gashikan, and Vargr culture would be AWESOME.

If I could run with this a bit, I'd prefer something in a "sector" comprising the rimward 12 subsectors of Arzul and the spinward 4 subsectors of Gn'hk'r. That way you go from the Julian Protectorate all the way to K'kree worlds. something tells me there's plenty of potential for conflict in tha tspace.

 

[Vormaerin]

If they are going to do The Traveller Adventure, I want the whole book to be about the adventure. So it should be set somewhere that already has a sector book. Otherwise, the adventure gets shafted in favor of a half arsed sector book

I'm not a super big fan of sector booking everywhere in existence in the first place, but I'd rather they make a Julian sector book (or where ever else) outright rather than half bake it in what is supposed to be a campaign adventure.

 

[ottarrus]

You do know that proles can be managers, military officers and the like?
A noble lieutenant would have to follow the orders of a prole general for example.

Nope.
Zhodani society imposed artificial caps on all castes.
- Proles can never rise above Sergeant Major and their EDU is capped by their SOC statistic. If prole's SOC is 6, that's as high as their EDU can go.
- Indendents can never rise above Colonel/Naval Captain of a technical branch. Battalion and greater commands are the preserve of Nobles
- Nobles never serve as enlisted personnel.

Furthermore, the psionically trained Intendents and Nobles form something like 18% of Zho society [sources vary, ranging from 15 to 20%]. ALL leadership positions, from corporate managers to military officers to government officials, come from that very limited social strata.

 

[ottarrus]

If they are going to do The Traveller Adventure, I want the whole book to be about the adventure. So it should be set somewhere that already has a sector book. Otherwise, the adventure gets shafted in favor of a half arsed sector book

I'm not a super big fan of sector booking everywhere in existence in the first place, but I'd rather they make a Julian sector book (or where ever else) outright rather than half bake it in what is supposed to be a campaign adventure.

Well, a fair percentage of The Traveller Adventure book described conditions, politics, and power players of Aramis subsector, as well as detailing planets and astrography. But it's still the gold standard for a sandbox campaign...

 

[Vormaerin]

Yes, it is details the adventure related material for the campaign. It did not need to explain how entire region worked, like it would with a new extra-Imperial sector.

 

[ottarrus]

I

Yes, it is details the adventure related material for the campaign. It did not need to explain how entire region worked, like it would with a new extra-Imperial sector.

I see your point but, just as a for instance, jump over to Travellermap and take a look at Mendan Sector Subsector B.
It's an unclaimed sector set between the Empire of Gashikan, the Julian Protectorate, and a couple of subsector-sized rump states. You could handle the interstellar politics of that whole area in perhaps three or four pages. Another 6 or 8 pages for the specific conditions in Subsector B [crime, military, commercial, etc.]. Taking the page count of 'Skandersvik' as an example 104 pgs], that leaves 80+ pages of adventure specific info.

 

[Vormaerin]

I'm just saying that if you want a book on the Julian Protectorate and its environs, ask for a book on that and don't try to shoehorn an underdeveloped version into a completely different product. There' s a lot of interesting stuff out that way (a couple minor races, a lot of interesting Vargr stuff, etc) and I'd be annoyed to see it get short shrift in service of an adventure arc. Not to mention anyone who then wants the info on the Mendan region has to buy this 80pg campaign they might not want to get their 20 pages of light details on the area. Also not ideal.

I mean, they *could* make all that stuff central to the adventure so that it wasn't half baked flavor text, but the thing about the Traveller Adventure that interests me is providing GMs with structures for running a sandbox trading campaign focusing on mercantile issues. TTA was mix of player driven trading and a background plot of corporate trade war.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Nope.
Zhodani society imposed artificial caps on all castes.
- Proles can never rise above Sergeant Major and their EDU is capped by their SOC statistic. If prole's SOC is 6, that's as high as their EDU can go.
- Indendents can never rise above Colonel/Naval Captain of a technical branch. Battalion and greater commands are the preserve of Nobles
- Nobles never serve as enlisted personnel.

Furthermore, the psionically trained Intendents and Nobles form something like 18% of Zho society [sources vary, ranging from 15 to 20%]. ALL leadership positions, from corporate managers to military officers to government officials, come from that very limited social strata.

Nope, just nope.

If that is the way it works in MgT now then the author needs to take another look at the CT alien module and the 1e MgT alien module.

edit 1. And I just checked - the author needs to go back and read his CT and MgT1e source material.

However, this ambition has a definite ceiling: Proles
working within an organisation can attain junior
management, supervisory or non-commissioned officer
(NCO) positions that involve supervising other Proles
but they will never rise to policy-making, executive,
command or commissioned officer posts.

This is very similar to what is written in GT by a different author.

However, this ambition has a definite ceiling: proles working within an organization
can attain junior management, foreman or non-commissioned officer (NCO)
positions that involve supervising other proles, but they will never hold rise to policy-
making, executive, command or commissioned officer posts.

This is just wrong wrong wrong based on prior canon, it should never have made it through editing (in GT or MgT 2e) or the secret squirrel squad - sorry inner circle. Unless it is an official retcon, in which case yet again the setting has been ruined due to an authorised mistake.

Get someone who knows canon to check stuff.

Proles can enlist in any Zho armed service apart from the Guards, they can achieve a commission and they can get promoted, all the way to the top.

The only career where they are limited in rank is Government where they can get to rank 3 Executive.

 

[ottarrus]

@Sigtrygg

I was implying in my top post that this was a MgT2e discussion in support of the upcoming Fifth Frontier War product.

MgT1e material has been superseded by MgT2e. That's what 'new edition' means. Anything you personally prefer from a different edition or source is 'IMTU' material. That's no problem, of course. I have TONS IMTU stuff from several publishers that fits my conception of Traveller that is most likely very different than yours. That's how it should be. YTUMV and all that.

But for purposes this discussion, Mongoose Traveller 2nd Ed. is the guiding source because the Fifth Frontier War is a product written for that edition

Aliens of Charted Space vol. 1 says:
-Proles are NEVER allowed in a position to lead or command intendants or nobles.
- Proles are born to the caste and, unless they rise to Intendent through Psi testing as a child, they will never rise above SOC 9.
- Intendents are never allowed to lead or command nobles.
- If they are due a promotion that would place them in command of Nobles, the intendent is promoted to SOC B.
- Nobles of lower social rank are allowed to command nobles of higher social rank. For example it's perfectly fine for Colonel Alpha-atl to command Major Beta-stebr. In social situations the Major would take precedence, but there would be careful attention paid to the Colonel's rank and his position as CO.
- While there is limited social mobility based on merit in the Consulate, the jump between castes is unheard of save for certain very specific circumstances [Intendents winning the Psionic Games, proles testing for a high PSI Strength as a child, etc.]

In all this, every source of Zhodani material going all the way back to JTAS 9 is in agreement. The sources I checked include:
- Contact Zhodani! JTAS 9
- CT Alien Module 4: Zhodani
- Zhodani Philosophies, JTAS 23
- MGT Imperial Encyclopedia
- MgT1e Alien Module 4: Zhodani
- MgT2e Aliens of Charted Space vol. 1

 

[Sigtrygg]

MgT2e Alien Races 1 is wrong.

Have you noticed that it a cut and paste from GT? (odd thing is the authors are different - is MgT allowed to just cut and paste GT material?)

CT and MgT1e get it right. The MgT 2e is a copy (only one word changed) of the error introduced in GT.

I will take Don's authority over every other third party writer.

 

[alex_greene]

I should have brought along marshmallows.

 

[Vormaerin]

I don't know what the point of that retcon would be. To make the Zhodani clearly the bad guys, I suppose. Which I hardly think is a beneficial change.

 

[fvcoulter]

I don't know what the point of that retcon would be. To make the Zhodani clearly the bad guys, I suppose. Which I hardly think is a beneficial change.

Ah, so a strong caste system are bad guys? Just because it isn't the modern western ideal?

 

[Condottiere]

Theirs is just more formalized, and social mobility is dependent on one trait.