Combat Damage

[hdrider67]

I've tried for two days to pinpoint what it was bugging me about the combat system (besides ticks and I'm getting used to those) and it's the low point distribution of weapons.

I did a workup with a few combat sims and found that facing off against a high skill hombre means pretty much instant death (well, unconsciousness and it may as well be the same). MGT,RTT, whatever it's called adds ALL DMs for damage. A guy with a Gauss Pistol at optimum range (+2) aiming for a tick (+1) with Guns(SP)-3 (+3) will do 1d6+7+6=~17 points of damage.

If he wins initiative and you aren't armored, you are toast.

The gauss pistol (under these circumstances) will always do 14 minimum damage and maximum 19. That's freaking HUGE damage against someone with an average 8 stat since the average is so high.

While using one die to keep the numbers rolled down sounded good to me at first, it seems to really stack the weapon damage at the very high end.

I know it's a game but it's almost there's very little possibility of getting winged.

Funny enough, I'm not even playing by the death spiral rules. I can't imagine needing a system even more deadly.

I'm not sure if I would have a workable suggestion, though. Maybe only add the combat skill into the damage? Lower the effect of most weapons? Maybe even go back to throwing multiple dice without effect and then adding the DMs?

 

[Allensh]

I kind of think futuristic weapons (and weapons in general) should be deadly. But this may be a bit too deadly. Might need to drop damage values on weapons a bit.

Allen

 

[AKAramis]

My big complaints about the damage system are simple:

By comparison to CT, MT, even TNE and T4, most of the damages have dropped the lower lobe of the probable damages.

Take the Rifle: in CT, it was 3D. that was 3 dice applied individually to random stats, for a minimum of 3, mean of 10.5, and max of 18 points of stat damage. Joe Normal (with or without armor) has about a 35% chance of remaining conscious, since on a first hit, all three dice go to one stat.

In MT, that same rifle will range from 0 to 12 dice of damage, randomly distributed to the 3 stats, and if it does 3 or more, most normals will be dropped.

In MoTrav Draft 2, it's 8+SL, for 9-17+, less armor.

Fixing It

For me, I'd rather see a SL x X where X is a damage rating between 0.5 and 4 for most small arms. (with the .22cb being the x0.25... that was one anemic round...)
I'd map the CT damages thus:
Melee
1d: x1
2d: x2
3d: x3
4d: x4

Ranged:
1d: x0.5
2d: x1
3d: x2
4d: x3
5d: x3
6d: x4
7d: x4
8d: x5
9d: x5
+2d: x(+1)

I'd also rather see first stat damaged randomized.[/b]

 

[SableWyvern]

I think that something along the lines that AKAramis suggests will make for a better system than the [flat bonus + mods - armour] that we have at the moment.

I'm also a bit leery of the way all DMs are used to modify damage. Everyone takes less damage in a night-fight (assuming no special optical aids)?

 

[hdrider67]

I like it, AKAramis.

I wouldn't mind also seeing a bonus to damage equal to skill level (That's what being trained is for) but I think the other DMs should be left as the modifiers to hit.

 

[Mongoose Gar]

I'm thinking of dropping base weapon damage by a few points, all right.

 

[Andrew Whincup]

Is there any place for the Effect dice in your system AKAramis?

Andy

 

[AKAramis]

Is there any place for the Effect dice in your system AKAramis?

Andy

Damage = Success Level * Damage Rating

Since Success Level is defined in the task system as effect die + Skill + Difficulty DM, I'd say absolutely.

It provides a large chunk granularity†, but also provides for those lesser hits.
Oh, and for Effect die rolls of less than 1, treat as 1/2, with a minimum of 1 point.

†This is a drawback to such a system. However, by comparison, it allows for hits that merely graze, and small weapons to do significant damage; with just a level 1 skill, up to 11 points of damage for a Damage Rating 1.
11, you ask? 6 on the die, +1 from skill, +2 from optimum range, +2 from aim. Makes a .22 body pistol into a threat. rifles center on 12, but range 1-33 points, centering around 9-15.

 

[hdrider67]

Is there any place for the Effect dice in your system AKAramis?

Andy

Damage = Success Level * Damage Rating

Since Success Level is defined in the task system as effect die + Skill + Difficulty DM, I'd say absolutely.

It provides a large chunk granularity†, but also provides for those lesser hits.
Oh, and for Effect die rolls of less than 1, treat as 1/2, with a minimum of 1 point.

†This is a drawback to such a system. However, by comparison, it allows for hits that merely graze, and small weapons to do significant damage; with just a level 1 skill, up to 11 points of damage for a Damage Rating 1.
11, you ask? 6 on the die, +1 from skill, +2 from optimum range, +2 from aim. Makes a .22 body pistol into a threat. rifles center on 12, but range 1-33 points, centering around 9-15.

Me likey.

 

[Court Jester]

Wait... isn't Damage in MGT Effect plus damage minus armour... (remembering DM's will never take your effect above 6)

Meaning the Gauss Pistol Example gets a maximum of 6 for effect plus the damage of 7 minus the targets armour...

Not quite as bad as 17...

 

[SableWyvern]

Wait... isn't Damage in MGT Effect plus damage minus armour... (remembering DM's will never take your effect above 6)

Combat is the exception to the maximum Effect of 6 rule.

Personally, I think that it would be more realistic to limit the Effect to 6, and apply only skill DMs (treating the unskilled DM as 0). Technically, everyone should have the same maximum damage (an untrained klutz can get lucky and do the same damage as an elite sniper if he puts a round straight through your heart; just as firing at night, or through smoke, or hastily really only affects your ability to hit, not your upper limit on damage).

I'm not sure how much of a carry-on affect this kind of change would have, but it would at least result in a simplification as well as, IMO, a more believeable system.

...


I was playing around with the numbers last night, and I think I've got a system I like, using AKAramis's damage multiplier system and an armour system that works basically like TNE's. I think I can safely say the armour part of it would be considered far too complicated by the fairly significant "keep it simple" faction, though. :wink: