But what does <insert component here> actually do?

[Geir]

So I'm short of functioning brain cells and all I can do is virtually page through Adventure Class ships reading descriptions (not even looking for mistakes) and noticing things that make me go *huh*:

1) Cargo cranes and loading belts: some ships have them, some don't; some even have both. But I don't know of a game mechanic (other than UNREP) that deals with the time it takes to move cargo on or off ships. The latent bean counter in me wouldn't ever buy a cargo crane (at a minimum of 3 tons and MCr1 per ton), and even a loading belt (eating 1 ton and just a little cost) is questionable if the work of 10 or 25 crewmembers isn't even defined. So some sort of mechanic should at least optionally cover cargo handling times. Yeah, I can think of some clever adventuring reasons to have the crane, but those wouldn't be reasons for a standard spec. Same goes for those Empress Marava Cargo Airlocks.

2) Common Area and crew space allocation in general. I can't remember if I typed something here about this or not, but there ought to be some direct Crew Efficiency, Morale, and Fatigue effects of too little or even of superior space allocation. Some of that is tossed around in varying ancillary texts, but they aren't in any way tied to tons/crew allocated to comfort. Crew Efficiency and Morale are more for NPCs, but Fatigue would cover Travellers as well and tie into Efficiency with DMs. There is a whole deal with the Naval Campaign stuff and Deepnight that builds that mechanic. So bonuses or penalties based on allocated space? Otherwise, the evil accountant would pack them in with double occupancy.

3) Anyone have anything else that fits in the "What's that actually do for me" category? I mean, you can say that about a theatre or swimming pool (or bowling alley?) but that's sort of a subset of point #2 (in addition to any sort of DM+1 on getting high passengers effect).

 

[Condottiere]

1. Presumably, fixed organic automation.

2. Try recruiting a bunch of hikikomori - morale, efficiency and fatigue might not be high, but unlikely to get lower due to common area allocation.

3. It tends to be pretty individual, but eventual compensation tends to mitigate current circumstances; problems arise when it doesn't.

 

[Terry Mixon]

1) Cargo cranes and loading belts: some ships have them, some don't; some even have both. But I don't know of a game mechanic (other than UNREP) that deals with the time it takes to move cargo on or off ships. The latent bean counter in me wouldn't ever buy a cargo crane (at a minimum of 3 tons and MCr1 per ton), and even a loading belt (eating 1 ton and just a little cost) is questionable if the work of 10 or 25 crewmembers isn't even defined. So some sort of mechanic should at least optionally cover cargo handling times. Yeah, I can think of some clever adventuring reasons to have the crane, but those wouldn't be reasons for a standard spec. Same goes for those Empress Marava Cargo Airlocks.

I decided to add a cargo crane to the smuggler I have my PCs on. It's made for off field loading and unloading and being able to get the cargo clear of the ship and pick up in a rough ground setting seemed worth it to me. Otherwise? Probably not.

 

[Vormaerin]

I'm sure you'll be shocked to learn that T5 has a mechanic for quality of life for passengers and crew. I don't think any other Traveller book looks at it seriously.

 

[Vormaerin]

Ships have their own forklifts and gantries makes some degree of sense, especially given the state of infrastructure in Traveller. But there's certainly no mechanics to support actually detailing them out. And the gameplay purpose would just be in those rare instances when you are landing on a backwater world or away from the starport and have a time limit to load/unload. That puts it pretty far down the list off "things abstracted away" that might be usefully detailed in my book.

 

[Geir]

I'm sure you'll be shocked to learn that T5 has a mechanic for quality of life for passengers and crew. I don't think any other Traveller book looks at it seriously.View attachment 2018

Not surprised it exists, but surprised anyone could find. Book 2?

 

[MasterGwydion]

Ships have their own forklifts and gantries makes some degree of sense, especially given the state of infrastructure in Traveller. But there's certainly no mechanics to support actually detailing them out. And the gameplay purpose would just be in those rare instances when you are landing on a backwater world or away from the starport and have a time limit to load/unload. That puts it pretty far down the list off "things abstracted away" that might be usefully detailed in my book.

Or you dock to a pirated ship airlock to airlock. It is kind of important in those circumstances to know those kinds of things. Or if you have to load up before the patrol comes by, or a million other reasons.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Not surprised it exists, but surprised anyone could find. Book 2?

Yeah, My problem with T5 has nothing to do with the rules, yet anyhow. My problem is that I can't seem to learn the rules since I can not find anything in any of the three books.

 

[MasterGwydion]

So I'm short of functioning brain cells and all I can do is virtually page through Adventure Class ships reading descriptions (not even looking for mistakes) and noticing things that make me go *huh*:

1) Cargo cranes and loading belts: some ships have them, some don't; some even have both. But I don't know of a game mechanic (other than UNREP) that deals with the time it takes to move cargo on or off ships. The latent bean counter in me wouldn't ever buy a cargo crane (at a minimum of 3 tons and MCr1 per ton), and even a loading belt (eating 1 ton and just a little cost) is questionable if the work of 10 or 25 crewmembers isn't even defined. So some sort of mechanic should at least optionally cover cargo handling times. Yeah, I can think of some clever adventuring reasons to have the crane, but those wouldn't be reasons for a standard spec. Same goes for those Empress Marava Cargo Airlocks.

2) Common Area and crew space allocation in general. I can't remember if I typed something here about this or not, but there ought to be some direct Crew Efficiency, Morale, and Fatigue effects of too little or even of superior space allocation. Some of that is tossed around in varying ancillary texts, but they aren't in any way tied to tons/crew allocated to comfort. Crew Efficiency and Morale are more for NPCs, but Fatigue would cover Travellers as well and tie into Efficiency with DMs. There is a whole deal with the Naval Campaign stuff and Deepnight that builds that mechanic. So bonuses or penalties based on allocated space? Otherwise, the evil accountant would pack them in with double occupancy.

3) Anyone have anything else that fits in the "What's that actually do for me" category? I mean, you can say that about a theatre or swimming pool (or bowling alley?) but that's sort of a subset of point #2 (in addition to any sort of DM+1 on getting high passengers effect).

Pirates of Drinax had the PWH (Person-Work-Hour) thing, but it was kind of clunky and I hated it. Skills had no effect, even Untrained had no effect. Although in this case, it sounds like you need a mechanic like that, but still please don't.

The way I understood Cargo Cranes and Loading Belts, was this. Cargo cranes move things around inside the ship. Loading belts load and offload from the dock. UNREP Systems are for ship to ship or ship to station and includes liquids as well. Cargo Cranes and Loading Belts can only move cargo containers.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The way I understood Cargo Cranes and Loading Belts, was this. Cargo cranes move things around inside the ship. Loading belts load and offload from the dock. UNREP Systems are for ship to ship or ship to station and includes liquids as well. Cargo Cranes and Loading Belts can only move cargo containers.

The crane is both inside and outside.

CARGO CRANE

Built into the ceiling of a cargo hold, this overhead gantry crane is designed to shift cargo containers in and out of the ship. The crane’s mechanism moves about the bay on a sliding jig and can extend beyond the cargo door on a gibbet to deposit freight directly onto a dockside or vehicle. The crane is strong enough to lift fully loaded containers of up to 65 tons and can couple with most pallets and crates.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The crane is both inside and outside.

CARGO CRANE

Built into the ceiling of a cargo hold, this overhead gantry crane is designed to shift cargo containers in and out of the ship. The crane’s mechanism moves about the bay on a sliding jig and can extend beyond the cargo door on a gibbet to deposit freight directly onto a dockside or vehicle. The crane is strong enough to lift fully loaded containers of up to 65 tons and can couple with most pallets and crates.

Good catch! Now I have no idea why both exist...lol... Just one question. Are those tons Dtons or tons of Mass? I only ask because that," the crane is strong enough to lift", that implies weight, not size.

 

[Vormaerin]

Or you dock to a pirated ship airlock to airlock. It is kind of important in those circumstances to know those kinds of things. Or if you have to load up before the patrol comes by, or a million other reasons.

If the rules actually told you what it did in a meaningful way, there might be some value to having it. It's pretty niche, but it would be important if you are playing pirates or smugglers. Cargo airlocks are another thing most floorplans don't seem to spend time on. Does the fact that a few ships do imply that the other don't? hmmm.

 

[Vormaerin]

I'm sure you'll be shocked to learn that T5 has a mechanic for quality of life for passengers and crew. I don't think any other Traveller book looks at it seriously.View attachment 2018

lol. Don't expect me to be able to actually put a whole ship together using the book, but I can find things usually. But figuring out how they fit together? Nope.

Anyway, yes, its Book 2. Pg. 92

 

[MasterGwydion]

If the rules actually told you what it did in a meaningful way, there might be some value to having it. It's pretty niche, but it would be important if you are playing pirates or smugglers. Cargo airlocks are another thing most floorplans don't seem to spend time on. Does the fact that a few ships do imply that the other don't? hmmm.

It would imply that to Me. Most cargo bays just aren't intended to be opened while in space. They can be, but if they are not designed with a cargo airlock, I would say that they are not strictly designed to be, hence the whole you have to depressurize the entire cargo bay thing.

 

[MasterGwydion]

lol. Don't expect me to be able to actually put a whole ship together using the book, but I can find things usually. But figuring out how they fit together? Nope.

Anyway, yes, its Book 2. Pg. 92

I envy your ability to navigate the T5 books. That puts you at least a level of comprehension above Me on T5. lol

 

[Sigtrygg]

T5 is easy to navigate these days, it has an index and the pdf search function works pretty well for key words.If you had suffered through the playtest->pre release->original->update->and then 5.10 you would fine the three book pdf version of T5 a miracle of organisation.
My main issue is the subtle changes between editions, and that the actual core game is unplayable without house rules.
It is a fantastic resource for fleshing out a Traveller setting based on the Third Imperium and its various eras.

 

[Shardan13]

1) Cargo cranes and loading belts: some ships have them, some don't; some even have both. But I don't know of a game mechanic (other than UNREP) that deals with the time it takes to move cargo on or off ships. The latent bean counter in me wouldn't ever buy a cargo crane (at a minimum of 3 tons and MCr1 per ton), and even a loading belt (eating 1 ton and just a little cost) is questionable if the work of 10 or 25 crewmembers isn't even defined. So some sort of mechanic should at least optionally cover cargo handling times. Yeah, I can think of some clever adventuring reasons to have the crane, but those wouldn't be reasons for a standard spec. Same goes for those Empress Marava Cargo Airlocks.

Sounds like something a merchant supplement should look into?

 

[phavoc]

For single cargo decks I prefer simplicity - having the cargo area with wheels that recess into the floor allows easy brute force movement of any flat-bottomed container. And with modifying the gravity it makes it even easier to load/unload cargo. The principle can even be used on a cargo ramp, at which point a larger ground or grav vehicle can take over.

This negates the need for anything more complex than a forklift or some other mechanism - even muscles - to move most any type of cargo. Odd-sized items or something else would require different methods of course.

A cargo crane in a single level deck is essentially a recessed hook (or sets) in the ceiling. A slim overhead grav lifter that would fit snugly on top of a container would also work, and allow flexibility outside the ship as well. Any ship that transported bulk cargoes could use a cargo belt system (Alternatively you could also simply have overhead or lower deck hatches to dump the cargo like a ship or rail car does today.

 

[Micky]

Sounds like something a merchant supplement should look into?

or perhaps a Starship Operators Manuel vol.2.. crunchy great taste and less fluffy filling..

 

[WHULorigan]

T5 is easy to navigate these days, it has an index and the pdf search function works pretty well for key words.If you had suffered through the playtest->pre release->original->update->and then 5.10 you would fine the three book pdf version of T5 a miracle of organisation.
My main issue is the subtle changes between editions, and that the actual core game is unplayable without house rules.
It is a fantastic resource for fleshing out a Traveller setting based on the Third Imperium and its various eras.

Agreed. The T5.10 set is far superior to any of the previous T5 versions, especially in organization (although I am still glad that I have the earlier stuff, because there were some things in them (mostly minor starship-tech details or variants) that eventually got cut).

Although I think even the need for "House-Ruling" in T5.10 is far less than in the earlier iterations.
(But I agree that there should not be any need for house-ruling at all).