Collapsing the OTU History

[JimG]

Cross posted from another forum...
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In my main campaign (very roughly based on the OTU), I introduced a "treasure hunt" plot related to some legendary Second Imperium ships that disappeared at the beginning of the Long Night. I'm going to start by working on the historical details of what actually happened, and then I'm going to apply a filter of legend, myth, and misinformation.

I've been looking at the OTU timeline here:
- Timeline

Anyway, the dates and the ages are starting to tweak my Suspenders of Disbelief (OK, the OTU as a whole does this, but when I started the campaign I wanted to get into the game as quickly as possible, and the OTU gave me a quick and easy starting point.) I'm considering collapsing the pre-TI timeline by a factor of 2 or 3:

• The long silence (-100,000 to -3189)
• Rise of the Vilani (-3190 to -1459) 1730 years
• The First Imperium (-1460 to -918) 541 years
• The Interstellar wars (-919 to -810) 108 years
• The Second Imperium (-811 to -593) 217 years
• The Long Night (-592 to 0) 593 years
• Third Imperium (0 to ?) 1105 years so far...

For those of you who are use and are familiar with the OTU, are there any consequences to this collapse which may be important? If I hadn't already established the current date and age of the Third Imperium, I would collapse that period as well. (I may end up RetConning that though.)

 

[Stofsk]

I'm sure there are consequences to collapsing the established OTU timeline the way you have, the more pertinent question though is how relevant would that be to the story you want to tell?

I take a very cavalier approach to the OTU, I change things and tweak them all the time. I take the OTU as a guideline, or rather a baseline, something which can act as a foundation to the setting. When it comes time to actually play in the game, things will change anyway to best suit the story - which remember, ought to grow organically through the player's interactions with you.

The campaign idea is intriguing. I like the idea of a treasure hunt. Don't forget to add corsairs.

 

[JimG]

I'm sure there are consequences to collapsing the established OTU timeline the way you have, the more pertinent question though is how relevant would that be to the story you want to tell?

Well, it will certainly make the story easier to tell if the "treasure" is a few hundred rather than a few thousand years old.

I take a very cavalier approach to the OTU, I change things and tweak them all the time. I take the OTU as a guideline, or rather a baseline, something which can act as a foundation to the setting. When it comes time to actually play in the game, things will change anyway to best suit the story - which remember, ought to grow organically through the player's interactions with you.

Oh, absolutely... I've completely reworked the history (and geography) of the sector we play in, and basically I use the OTU to fill in the blanks around the outside of the map.

The campaign idea is intriguing. I like the idea of a treasure hunt. Don't forget to add corsairs.

Oh, yeah, corsairs and rival treasure hunters and... well other obstacles that I don't want to reveal in case my players are reading...

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I personally think that your timeline is BETTER than the official timeline.

I never understood why it took THOUSANDS of years for the Long Night to end. REALLY... it seems to me if it was an economic collapse, some worlds would be back on their feet in a generation or two.

The Ancients being around at 100,000 years instead of 300,000 years also fixes several issues raised here, and other places, about evolution and whether modern homo sapiens would even be around.

I LIKE it.

 

[Travellingdave]

I agree with compressing the time line and have tended to do so myself in my OTU games. In my experience, most pre-3rd Imperium events can be altered without significant problems. Just make sure that there's enough time to establish the human populations of your target sectors through colonization and collapse.

 

[JimG]

I personally think that your timeline is BETTER than the official timeline.

I never understood why it took THOUSANDS of years for the Long Night to end. REALLY... it seems to me if it was an economic collapse, some worlds would be back on their feet in a generation or two.

The Ancients being around at 100,000 years instead of 300,000 years also fixes several issues raised here, and other places, about evolution and whether modern homo sapiens would even be around.

I LIKE it.

Thanks! I think the "Long Night" might be Third Imperium propaganda... there may have viable economies within and between various pocket empires, but there was no Imperium and no Empire so clearly they must have been barbarians.

I agree with compressing the time line and have tended to do so myself in my OTU games. In my experience, most pre-3rd Imperium events can be altered without significant problems. Just make sure that there's enough time to establish the human populations of your target sectors through colonization and collapse.

Good point, I'm also considering collapsing the size of Charted Space a bit, so that might make the colonization timeline a little more managable as well.

 

[Stofsk]

I personally think that your timeline is BETTER than the official timeline.

I never understood why it took THOUSANDS of years for the Long Night to end. REALLY... it seems to me if it was an economic collapse, some worlds would be back on their feet in a generation or two.

The Ancients being around at 100,000 years instead of 300,000 years also fixes several issues raised here, and other places, about evolution and whether modern homo sapiens would even be around.

I LIKE it.

Thanks! I think the "Long Night" might be Third Imperium propaganda... there may have viable economies within and between various pocket empires, but there was no Imperium and no Empire so clearly they must have been barbarians.

I thought that was what the Long Night was supposed to be? The most that arose during that period were pocket empires, but they simply didn't manage to create the momentum the Sylean Federation had managed to. The implication was that the Syleans successfully merged superior ambition with superior ability, not to mention luck; there might well be numerous pocket empires or worlds that existed during the Long Night that had one or the other, but not both, or not enough of one, or they simply weren't lucky. Or a combination of all of the above.

On one hand the Long Night lasting over a thousand years seems excessively long, on the other hand in the real world the collapse of the Roman Empire resulted in a quite lengthy period we now call the Dark and Medieval Ages, and things didn't really start to turn around until the beginning of the Renaissance.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

True, the Dark Ages did follow the Roman Empire. But at the same time, there were bright shiny empires in Asia and the Middle East (and the Americas). It was only Dark in Europe.

The problem with the Long Night is that EVERYTHING and EVERYONE collapsed.

When the Ramshackle Empire fell, why didn't the Vargr move in? They had contact with the Vilani, they should have carved a large swath through most of the coreward sectors, but they didn't.

It seems like we have a situation where there was NOTHING for a long time and then suddenly, there are empires coming out of the woodwork, the Zhos, the Aslan, the Hivers, the K'Kree all at about the same time. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Golan2072]

When the Ramshackle Empire fell, why didn't the Vargr move in? They had contact with the Vilani, they should have carved a large swath through most of the coreward sectors, but they didn't.

It seems like we have a situation where there was NOTHING for a long time and then suddenly, there are empires coming out of the woodwork, the Zhos, the Aslan, the Hivers, the K'Kree all at about the same time. Doesn't make sense to me.

I'd wager that there were some nasty pocket-empires (or factions of the Rule of Man) which the alien powers had to think twice before attacking - pocket-empires that the Third Imperium would rather have history forget or downplay their role.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Possibly, but I still think that with Vilani settlements from the Spinward Marches, through Corridor and across the "Top" of the Imperium, the Vargr would have made inroads SOMEWHERE. Lair is only 1 sector away from Imperial Space. In several thousand years, I would have expected them to advance more than they did. I could easily see Corridor being choked off by Vargr and everything in Deneb and the Marches being under Vargr control. Of course then there is no Zhodani/Imperial border and the Zhos are left to fight the Vargr.

It just seems to me the Vargr would have come screaming around the Windhorn Void and gobbled up just about everything coreward of Sylea during the Long Night. Even if there were some big/poweful/nasty PEs (almost a sector in size), the Vargr still should have been able to take them out.

 

[Gamerguy]

:shock:

The rule is: You chane it - you own it! This will change it from the OTU to YTU (Your Traveller Universe).

My YTU has the First Imperium as 5,240 years old !!!!!!!!

Why? Because I like it that way !!!

SO - if the change works for you, adapt it and revise it as required and make a handout for your players of the changes.

My YTU handout is about 5 pages long describing my revisions.

Now all the Traveller modules like the Central Supply Catalog should work just fine - I assume TL's etc. will remain the same. One of the nice things about the new version of Traveller is the hardbound books like this one.
I really like them. The Central Supply Catalog is quite good - not a perfect Traveller module, but quite good!

The nice part about Mongoose Traveller is that modules from Classic Traveller, MegaTraveller or even Gurps Traveller adapt easily to a YTU Mongoose Traveller game.

8)

 

[Golan2072]

One possibility is to collapse the timeline by a factor of 5. This way we'll be looking at:

• Ancients (circa -60000; 57,370 BC)
• Long Silence (-60000 to -2000; 57,370 BC to 630 AD)
• Rise of the Vilani (-2,000 to -809; 630-1821 AD)
• First Imperium (-809 to -486; 1821-2144 AD)
• Interstellar Wars (-486 to -441; 2144-2189 AD)
• Rule of Man (-441 to -355; 2189-2230 AD)
• Long Night (-355 to 0; 2230-2585 AD)
• Third Imperium (0 to 223; 2630-2853 AD)
• Rebellion (223 to 226; 2853-2856 AD)
• Short Dusk/Hard Times (226 to 240; 2856-2870 AD)
• New Dawn (240+; 2870+ AD)

If you want to use the Virus timeline, stop collapsing the timeline in 1130 (226); then add 74 years of a Short Night (up to 300 Imperial/2899 AD); 1248 will then be 348 Imperial/2947 AD).

The Long Night might have been a late, rickety stage of the RoM (or several factions thereof, in constant war with the Vargr and with each other) that the Third Imperium would rather forget.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

What I like about Omer's timeline (collapse by a factor of 5) is that Real World TODAY is during the First Imperium. Maybe the flying saucers that people see are really Vilani scouts?

 

[Stofsk]

What I like about Omer's timeline (collapse by a factor of 5) is that Real World TODAY is during the First Imperium. Maybe the flying saucers that people see are really Vilani scouts?

The current date has always been during the First Imperium.

 

[Golan2072]

I've found an error in my timeline calculations and fixed it.

 

[Anonymous]

The only real issue I can see with the suggested timeline is when Homo Erectus evolved.
Your still looking at a starting point of 1,000,000 years ago and if the Ancients started at approx 60,000BC this doesnt fit.
Not a real deal breaker just a change of Homo species is needed to fix it.

 

[Golan2072]

The only real issue I can see with the suggested timeline is when Homo Erectus evolved.
Your still looking at a starting point of 1,000,000 years ago and if the Ancients started at approx 60,000BC this doesnt fit.
Not a real deal breaker just a change of Homo species is needed to fix it.

Yep, just change it to Homo sapiens sapiens or Homo neanderthalensis. It won't make much difference as most human "minor races" in canon tend to be either very similar to Homo sapiens sapiens or otherwise heavily genetically modified.

 

[Anonymous]

Homo neanderthalensis makes a lot of sense thinking about it, with the differences in the Human sub species in Traveller this really gives some clout to the Solomani superior mindset.
They are really the true Humans as the others are inferior sub species, you could go tot town on the racial bias they have.