Centauri Hunting Packs - A Question for you Chaps

[Burger]

So... if the Hunting Pack rules simply stated, "Centauri squadrons may contain up to 6 ships instead of 4"... you wouldn't regard it as a massive benefit? What you've given is basically that, plus the extra range bonus when you choose to use it.

Sorry I think it's far too powerful and I won't be swayed in that belief!

Too restrictive is better than too powerful. If it's too restrictive you just don't use it and carry on as normal. But if it's too powerful it will break the game and everyone will have to house-rule it out.

 

[KennyBoy]

The front arc in a Dilgar pentacan was not somewhere the enemy wanted to be - lots of AP/DD Bolter and Missile goodness! However, the side and rear arcs were mainly Light Pulsars (Range 8, Single Damage, no TL or AP).
The 6 ship Centauri Hunting Pack, if not restricted to firing at the one target, will be dishing out - usually - lots of Range 12, Double Damage TL or AP fire in all directions!!! TOO POWERFUL :evil:

 

[Da Boss]

as noted we Centauri players have by this new ruling recieved the following benefits:

1) We are now the only fleet that can have squadrons of 6 ships and one of only two races that can have 5 or more. The Dilgar can have 5 and have a special rule which is extremely useful but as well......

When using our squadrons we can take advantage of a unique additional rule to boost the range of our weapons.

A considerably more powerful and flexible boost than the other races - possibily exception being the Shadows and the Brakiri.

the argument that this is fne seems to go:

a) Its cool - well yes it is (if you are Centauri) but is it cool to play aginst - unknown to me but I doubt it.

b) its restrictive - actually its not - no more than a usual squadron - which can be extremely powerful and useful esp early in a game. One race has its entire fleet built around the concept that it has specilist large squadrons that others can't match. Now the Centauri can match the size and probbaly even outrange the Dilgar non missile wepaons - not very healthy for the Dilgar!

c) its easy to defeat - difficult to say at this point but am not convinced - people keep saying squadrons are bunched up - each ship only has to be within 6" of one other ship - not a major problem. A number of lfeets will suffer against this new super squadron who did not get a equally "cool" special feature to match it.

 

[Burger]

When logic fails it is time to try a different approach.

 

[katadder]

So... if the Hunting Pack rules simply stated, "Centauri squadrons may contain up to 6 ships instead of 4"... you wouldn't regard it as a massive benefit? What you've given is basically that, plus the extra range bonus when you choose to use it.

Sorry I think it's far too powerful and I won't be swayed in that belief!

Too restrictive is better than too powerful. If it's too restrictive you just don't use it and carry on as normal. But if it's too powerful it will break the game and everyone will have to house-rule it out.

what is one thing pretty much everyone agrees on?
that the person with the most ships will win due to init sinks etc.
squadron up 6 centauri ships and you have just lost 5 init sinks. yes you have good firepower if you manage to get a decent enough target in front (as most centauri firepower is forward) of said squadron. however you will find the centauri flanked.

so no I dont see a 6 ship squadron as a massive benefit, probably because the most I have squadroned in my centauri is 2 vorchans.

if squadrons of any size were such a massive benefit why dont we see squadrons everywhere? I hardly see anyone squadron anything.

 

[Da Boss]

When logic fails it is time to try a different approach.

can't see that I am afraid - is it fun!?

 

[Burger]

It's a cargo ship tipping over and all the containers spilling everywhere, it says "Your shipment of fail has been delivered"

Just a lighthearted joke in case any moderators take it the wrong way :lol:

 

[H]

people do not agree init sinks win, what people agree on is init sinks are essential if you play a boresight race. different things really. the Centauri are not boresight limited, hence init sinks a bit less important.

Squadrons never seen eh? mmmm, some races don't suit squadrons, the narn spring to mind (unless you fancy a mega e-mine blast on first turn) yet i rarely see demos not in squadrons, maybe northern folk play different to southern folk. I have however never seen Minbari squadroned. Surely it's all bout the race and ships, not the rule. believe me, if i could stick 6 dag kars in a squadron, i would darn well do it, with or without extra range!

 

[Da Boss]

So... if the Hunting Pack rules simply stated, "Centauri squadrons may contain up to 6 ships instead of 4"... you wouldn't regard it as a massive benefit? What you've given is basically that, plus the extra range bonus when you choose to use it.

Sorry I think it's far too powerful and I won't be swayed in that belief!

Too restrictive is better than too powerful. If it's too restrictive you just don't use it and carry on as normal. But if it's too powerful it will break the game and everyone will have to house-rule it out.

what is one thing pretty much everyone agrees on?
that the person with the most ships will win due to init sinks etc.
squadron up 6 centauri ships and you have just lost 5 init sinks. yes you have good firepower if you manage to get a decent enough target in front (as most centauri firepower is forward) of said squadron. however you will find the centauri flanked.

so no I dont see a 6 ship squadron as a massive benefit, probably because the most I have squadroned in my centauri is 2 vorchans.

if squadrons of any size were such a massive benefit why dont we see squadrons everywhere? I hardly see anyone squadron anything.

As I mentioned it depends a bit who you are facing - against Dilgar well you only need a couple of Kutati to counter their In sinks..............

The first strike ability is very powerful against someone using a big ship as it should give it a good kicking.

I use squadrons all the time - with the high Centauri Iniative it gives a very good Alpha strike capability - then split your sqaudrons up afterwards.

The original 2nd ed Demos excelled at it.

It can also be helpful against the Minbari for one ship that actaully sees the annoying B*&%ards to give the rest of the squadron bonuses because they saw it before the Minbari vapourise that ship

If squadrons were that bad - why does anyone use the Dilgar........ :?

 

[Da Boss]

people do not agree init sinks win, what people agree on is init sinks are essential if you play a boresight race. different things really. the Centauri are not boresight limited, hence init sinks a bit less important.

Squadrons never seen eh? mmmm, some races don't suit squadrons, the narn spring to mind (unless you fancy a mega e-mine blast on first turn) yet i rarely see demos not in squadrons, maybe northern folk play different to southern folk. I have however never seen Minbari squadroned. Surely it's all bout the race and ships, not the rule. believe me, if i could stick 6 dag kars in a squadron, i would darn well do it, with or without extra range!

We were recently showing Simon how good Squadrons were for the Minbari - two Tinashis deals out a lot of hurt - probably more than a Sharlin and likely more survivable. TGT used to win tourneys running round with a Ashinta squadron IIRC - 4 Ashinta dishing out 24 TL minibeams at 18" in all four arcs is nasty :shock:

 

[Greg Smith]

So was there a point in having a vote? :roll:

The new ruling simplifies things, but actually leaves the Centauri with the greatest flexibilty yet.

 

[Chandler]

I think that if the Centauri are going to have a hunting pack it should be a max of four ships, of raid level or lower and it should be declared as a hunting pack at the start of the game and should not act as a regular squadron when the situation fits.

What major game breaking bonuses did the other races get?

A squadron of six ships is completely over-powered even if the race using it doesn't win initiative as after one regular squadron or ship has hit one ship in the squadron they still have quite a few left to fire - all at the same time - at the enemy.

 

[Da Boss]

I think that if the Centauri are going to have a hunting pack it should be a max of four ships, of raid level or lower and it should be declared as a hunting pack at the start of the game and should not act as a regular squadron when the situation fits.

What major game breaking bonuses did the other races get?

A squadron of six ships is completely over-powered even if the race using it doesn't win initiative as after one regular squadron or ship has hit one ship in the squadron they still have quite a few left to fire - all at the same time - at the enemy.

Mostly agreed although we have yet to see the full ramifications of the skirmish Brakiri grav shifters which ignire your vaunted stealth?

On that subject when the Grav shifter causes damage does it give a bonus to break stealth to other ships?

 

[Burger]

if squadrons of any size were such a massive benefit why dont we see squadrons everywhere? I hardly see anyone squadron anything.

In all my time playing ACTA, I have only ever won one tournament.
I was playing Drazi + Vree under Armageddon rules, 5pt Raid. 2 squadrons of 4 Strikehawks, and 4 Vree patrol ships.
Game 1 against hiff's Drakh, poor hiff didn't really stand a chance. Boom bom boom boom.
Game 2 against Kenny's Shadows, 5 Scouts, I was a bit worried, especially when he started needing 2+ to see my Vaarls. Luckily his dice god deserted him and he failed a few times, but soon they started popping like cans of Pringles. However with 2x4 Strikehawks making a mockery of his stealth, he took succumbed.
Then TGT with his deliberately overpowered fleet: 2 tertius and a prefect. He died too, due to my squadron taking out the F guns of a tertius before he could open fire.

Would I have still won if I hadn't used squadrons? Possibly. But it would have been much harder, especially against TGT.
Would I have done better with squadrons of 6 ships? Well I won, so it's hard to say. But a squad of 6 and 2 more init sinks would certainly have made it easier to win I think.

So if you think squadrons are not powerful, you need to learn to use them! They are not an "I win" button in every circumstance. But when they are used well, they are a game winner.

 

[Chandler]

I agree with Burger.

On the subject of Brakiri Garv whoosits I think that they should not lower stealth for others because they are not trying to target it - hence they cannot pass targeting data to other ships in the fleet?

Secondly I disagree with them not needing to pass stealth because as has been stated they are not e-mines or area effect weapons and focus on the ship itself. For this reason surely they are counted as a weapon and should have to roll dice to attack and to see if the targeting computers can see the ships.

 

[Chandler]

And I know that very few will champion the already powerful Minbari but seriously, Web of Death!! If the range was better it would be useful.

 

[Greg Smith]

On the subject of Brakiri Garv whoosits I think that they should not lower stealth for others because they are not trying to target it - hence they cannot pass targeting data to other ships in the fleet?

The stealth rule says: "An additional –1 penalty is applied if any other ship in the same fleet has successfully attacked the target in the same turn..."

Since the shifter is not an attack (and hence the reason it doesn't need to beat stealth), it cannot lower stealth.

 

[silashand]

So was there a point in having a vote? :roll:

Seconded. It seems there was no point to the vote then since the winning option is not reflected in the new wording.

Ah well...

Cheers, Gary

 

[Target]

It is better, cause before you could fire some weapons at 50% range & then some at normal at other targets. I personally would never have 6 ships in squadron as we have never changed from 3 per original game.
Maybe if you have 6 then it is a hunting back pack with no option till they get 4. Honestly the extra ships aren't needed.

 

[lastbesthope]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your votes, the PDF is now up on the P&P page!

I have the updates now all I need is the book

Sodding FP ....

LBH