Hunting Packs final decision

[Burger]

I am getting a little tired of being accused by you, Burger. I didn't con anyone, we still have a single target rule in the current wording, even if you do not agree with the rule itself. It is not a con.

Fair enough, yes I agree I am being a little harsh and angry. I apologise for that. But like Gordon Ramsay says about the amount of swearing in his programmes, it's just because I am passoinate about the game and would like to see it well-balanced and fair. I love all the content in P&P apart from this one rule.

I do believe that what you wrote in your poll, the first post which clearly states the hunting pack can only attack a _single_ target. There is no mention of being able to act like a normal squadron each turn if it chooses. This is what 34 people voted for and only 2 against. Hence my feeling we were "conned"... what we voted for is completely different what was delivered.

to suggest I would ignore what people say about this game, frankly, goes against a great deal of what we have done over the past 5-odd years.

True. To be fair you have taken a lot of input from the forums, and that is a very good thing, we are honoured and realize that you could just say "screw you guys it's our game we'll do what we like" (as most other companies do!). But you have to admit, we have to work hard to convince you that things need changing. Remember Shadow Fighters, Armageddon Sagittarius, Troligan? The massive majority of the forum agreed that they were broken needed to be fixed, but it took a lot of hard work and 29-page threads to get those fixes implemented...

 

[MongooseMatt]

Fair enough, yes I agree I am being a little harsh and angry. I apologise for that. But like Gordon Ramsay says about the amount of swearing in his programmes, it's just because I am passoinate about the game and would like to see it well-balanced and fair. I love all the content in P&P apart from this one rule.

Spoken like a true gentleman. Let's move on.

Remember Shadow Fighters, Armageddon Sagittarius, Troligan? The massive majority of the forum agreed that they were broken needed to be fixed, but it took a lot of hard work and 29-page threads to get those fixes implemented...[/quote

Maybe - but consider another alternative, where we make things extremely easy for anyone to change

I think it is right that there is a lot of debate on such issues. If nothing else, it is a good indicator that gamers like talking about games at least as much as actually playing them

 

[AdrianH]

Your current suggestions have a number of issues that I was trying to avoid, but to suggest I would ignore what people say about this game, frankly, goes against a great deal of what we have done over the past 5-odd years.

Agreed, and for that I thank you.

Without allegations of deceit, I do agree with Burger's basic point, though. The original poll had two basic options - hunting packs can only engage one target, or they can engage as many as they like. The first option got the overwhelming majority. Next thing we know, hunting packs have the option to act like regular squadrons, give up the range boost and engage as many targets as they like. Judging by people's reaction, along with the results of the poll in this thread, that is not what people expected or wanted. However, I'm open-minded and willing to be convinced the other way - what issues does this raise? Why is it a problem for hunting packs to not have that option, and never be able to attack more than one target?

 

[mollari_uk]

I love all the content in P&P apart from this one rule

You'll live to regret this one burger! :wink:

Your current suggestions have a number of issues that I was trying to avoid...

I'd like to know these too. We've all pretty much armchaired the new rule and not actually play tested it so if there's some unseen problem with Burger's version I'd like to hear about it.

Oh and if I'd have thought about it more I might have voted D...We'd all be better off without it.

 

[Burger]

I'd also be interested to know the issues

The only one I can think of is that it is too restrictive and won't be used much. But I think the same can be said for most of the other races bonuses, right? Shadows Merging, High Energy Turns, Vorlons Regenerate, Drazi Attack Run... they are all restrictive and won't be used often. But they are funky tricks that might catch your opponent off-guard every now and then. So I think the restrictiveness is not too much, I think it's just in line with the other races bonuses.

 

[MongooseMatt]

The only one I can think of is that it is too restrictive and won't be used much.

That's certainly the big one. Hence the option D

 

[Burger]

Thinking about it, I'd be perfectly happy with the new PDF wording, if the squadron size was put back to maximum 4. Then you really would be making a compromise: to get the bonus range, you need to only fire at one target. But you get no super-sized squadrons for free.

Anyone agree? Why didn't I think of that one earlier?

 

[silashand]

I think the limiting it to one target only is sufficient. The Centauri don't have a problem getting all their ships in range now so the boost would be almost useless IMO, at least for how I play them anyway. Basically I'd be getting a special ability that provided me with no real bonus for a significant disadvantage.

Cheers, Gary

 

[Da Boss]

I think the limiting it to one target only is sufficient. The Centauri don't have a problem getting all their ships in range now so the boost would be almost useless IMO, at least for how I play them anyway. Basically I'd be getting a special ability that provided me with no real bonus for a significant disadvantage.
Cheers, Gary

Its not just about getting in to range its about being a range when your enemy is not........also making relively short ranged Centauri ships long range.

Squadrons are normally a vital part of most of our games (usually splitting after turn 2 or 3) so I and others find it very strange that people appatrently don't use them for the pure aplha strike ability.

Pentacons are also always used by our Dilgar player and work well.

 

[Triggy]

I agree with Da Boss - squadrons are immensely useful in the early stages of a game where you want your heavy hitters to strike first and remove enemy targets before they can retaliate. After the "alpha strike" the squadrons break and your fleet is back to normal.

 

[Chandler]

I would again like to promote the idea of the 'Bravari' special rule rather than the hunting pack!...

 

[AdrianH]

Thinking about it, I'd be perfectly happy with the new PDF wording, if the squadron size was put back to maximum 4. Then you really would be making a compromise: to get the bonus range, you need to only fire at one target. But you get no super-sized squadrons for free.

Anyone agree? Why didn't I think of that one earlier?

I did. Mind you, my idea didn't go quite as far as limiting the hunting pack to four ships right from the start. The hunting pack can contain up to six ships, as originally written; but if it wants to act like a regular squadron and fire at multiple targets, it must detach excess ships to bring it down to four. Pick one or two ships, they're no longer part of the squadron; ships are always allowed to leave a squadron. But they can't re-join when the squadron decides to be a hunting pack again because you can't re-form squadrons during battle.

Meanwhile, new ship, the Brivarin:
Some Balvarin captains, having lost their fighters in combat, loaded their hangar bays with crates of brivari. Suddenly faced with further enemy fighters, one captain loaded the brivari into the matter cannon, lobbed it into the middle of the enemy fighter formation, then ignited it with the forward ion cannon. Unfortunately, although this succeeded in destroying the enemy fighters, the ship itself was later lost when an enemy laser blast penetrated the fighter bay and detonated the remaining brivari.

Brivarin: Balvarin variant.
The ship loses the ability to carry fighters, along with the Carrier and Fleet Carrier traits. The matter cannon gains the Energy Mine and Slow Loading traits, but only if the forward ion cannon is not used against any other targets during the same turn that the matter cannon fires, being used to ignite the energy mine. If the ship is destroyed, it explodes at once as if it were a civilian tanker.

 

[Da Boss]

nice - like it

can we think of a similar rule for every race - even those with no sense of humour.............

 

[Burger]

The hunting pack can contain up to six ships, as originally written; but if it wants to act like a regular squadron and fire at multiple targets, it must detach excess ships to bring it down to four.

Deal. I'll go for that

 

[AdrianH]

nice - like it

can we think of a similar rule for every race - even those with no sense of humour.............

Squidzilla
Little is known about how the organic ships of the Vorlons and Shadows are produced, but Squidzilla appears to be the result of an illicit affair between a Shadow Scout and a Vorlon Transport. Combining the armour and anti-fighter grid of the Vorlon ship with the agility, hyperspace mastery and shields of the Shadows, Squidzilla is hard to destroy, but its mixed parentage makes it unpredictable. It looks similar to a Vorlon Transport but with the black mottled skin characteristic of the Shadows.

Squidzilla: Vorlon Transport variant (Skirmish)
Speed: 10
Turns: SM
Hull: 5
Damage: 8/2
Traits: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Anti-Fighter 1, Self Repair 1, Shields 5/2
Weapons:
Discharge Gun: range 18, F, 1AD, Beam, Double Damage, Precise
Phasing Pulse Cannon: range 8, F, 3AD, Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
Squidzilla can be used by either Shadows or Vorlons. If used by one against the other, roll 2D6 each turn; on 11 or 12, it switches sides. If used by either side against a fleet containing any White Star or White Star Gunship variant, roll 2D6 each turn; on 11 or 12, it will head straight for the nearest White Star type ship in an attempt to mate with it. Resolve as if it were a boarding attack with Troops 4; if successful, Squidzilla will head at maximum speed toward the nearest table edge, taking its new friend with it.

 

[Chandler]

Ok I know the mibari should have one, but what? Maybe something to do with a commander who drinks alcohol to fly into a blood lust? :wink:

 

[Da Boss]

nice - like it

can we think of a similar rule for every race - even those with no sense of humour.............

Squidzilla
Little is known about how the organic ships of the Vorlons and Shadows are produced, but Squidzilla appears to be the result of an illicit affair between a Shadow Scout and a Vorlon Transport. Combining the armour and anti-fighter grid of the Vorlon ship with the agility, hyperspace mastery and shields of the Shadows, Squidzilla is hard to destroy, but its mixed parentage makes it unpredictable. It looks similar to a Vorlon Transport but with the black mottled skin characteristic of the Shadows.

Squidzilla: Vorlon Transport variant (Skirmish)
Speed: 10
Turns: SM
Hull: 5
Damage: 8/2
Traits: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Anti-Fighter 1, Self Repair 1, Shields 5/2
Weapons:
Discharge Gun: range 18, F, 1AD, Beam, Double Damage, Precise
Phasing Pulse Cannon: range 8, F, 3AD, Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
Squidzilla can be used by either Shadows or Vorlons. If used by one against the other, roll 2D6 each turn; on 11 or 12, it switches sides. If used by either side against a fleet containing any White Star or White Star Gunship variant, roll 2D6 each turn; on 11 or 12, it will head straight for the nearest White Star type ship in an attempt to mate with it. Resolve as if it were a boarding attack with Troops 4; if successful, Squidzilla will head at maximum speed toward the nearest table edge, taking its new friend with it.

you are very good at this 8) hmm now I do actually have a spare Vorlon transport and some tendrils lying about. Got to be done I think

 

[Chandler]

Ok so what is the final decision on hunting packs, considering nearly as many people don't want to play with them at all as those who want to use Burgers wording? I personally think the 'bravari' idea should be used instead!?

But what will happen to this rule officially?

 

[Triggy]

Ok so what is the final decision on hunting packs, considering nearly as many people don't want to play with them at all as those who want to use Burgers wording? I personally think the 'bravari' idea should be used instead!?

But what will happen to this rule officially?

Good question, I know we've had an "initial" ruling on it but it would be good for a final confirmation before the event.

 

[mollari_uk]

The only one I can think of is that it is too restrictive and won't be used much.

That's certainly the big one. Hence the option D

So are Shadow merging and High Energy Turns. I see them rarely used even though they are great additions.

I'd like to see something official changed again with this rule even if it's taken out and set as an optional rule instead. My group doesn't really entertain house rules because they tend to affect different players and so only offical updates generally get the nod. Therefore if hunting packs stay as they are the Centauri might be the new ISA (i.e. no one wants to play against them).