Centauri Hunting Packs - A Question for you Chaps

[Greg Smith]

No. The ability to switch between the two is very flexible. Also, why should Centauri be allowed squadrons of six ships?

At most a hunting pack should be allowed to drop to 4 ships and revert to a regular squadron (and not change back). It should certainly not change to and fro at will.

 

[Burger]

Agree with Greg. IMO it shouldn't even be able to drop back to a normal squadron at all.

Ships can still leave the hunting pack in the same way ships can leave a normal squadron, so if you don't have a big juicy target, you can break up or split just a few off. That is enough flexibility, it is a powerful bonus so it needs to be restrictive.

 

[KennyBoy]

I'll just throw my vote into the overwhelming YES box! 8)

 

[Da Boss]

Agree with Greg. IMO it shouldn't even be able to drop back to a normal squadron at all.

Ships can still leave the hunting pack in the same way ships can leave a normal squadron, so if you don't have a big juicy target, you can break up or split just a few off. That is enough flexibility, it is a powerful bonus so it needs to be restrictive.

best change the wording / intent again :roll:

ah well best to work out all these things out now that its been published................ :wink:

 

[Burger]

No need to change the wording for that... there are no rules for downgrading a hunting pack to a standard squadron therefore you can't do it.

 

[Da Boss]

reading through your wording again - yep seems good.

although is Matt on baord with this (hopefully yes) as he request was re the one target / multiple targets?

 

[Burger]

reading through your wording again - yep seems good.

although is Matt on baord with this (hopefully yes) as he request was re the one target / multiple targets?

The original post and vote were for a _single_ target. So I guess the intent was to remove the ability to attack multiple enemy squadron members.

 

[Na-Po]

My bad, I was thinking (don't know why) that hunting pack had the same number of ships than a normal squadron.
If different numbers then no reverse unless it drops to a "normal" squadron number.
(if not allowed I break the hunting pack and create a new squadron ... )

 

[Burger]

You can't create a new squadron mid-game. So breaking up and making up is not possible. (Nothing to do with hunting packs, this has always been the rule)

I think even if you drop down to 4 or less ships, being able to revert back to a normal squadron allows too much flexibility. You're getting great benefits from being a hunting pack, you should be under quite severe restrictions. Once a hunting pack, always a hunting pack, until disbanded. IMO

 

[Iain McGhee]

One target only if you please.

 

[mollari_uk]

I agree, there should be no reverting. It's not only too powerful but it will also require a more carefully thought out description. As it stands it's pretty simple to explain:

Squadron of up to 6 ships of raid priority or lower.
All ships can only shoot at one target.
If one ship is in range all other ships get +50% range.

Burger's version explains this perfectly for the revision.

 

[AdrianH]

Interestingly, the playtest version of P&P had this to say about its hunting pack:

A Centauri squadron will no longer be classed as a Hunting Pack if it drops below four ships or loses the largest ship.

Not only could the hunting pack revert to being a basic squadron; it had to. You couldn't say "now it's a hunting pack, now it's not"; once the squadron lost hunting pack status, it did so permanently. Of course, the playtest hunting pack was a different beast to the published one.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your votes, the PDF is now up on the P&P page!

 

[Burger]

Funky, and honoured my wording was used mostly

However one change I noticed, "may nominate one target" rather than "must nominate one target". May implies choice. Surely every turn you must choose a target and can only attack that one? Otherwise you can basically choose to not ever nominate a target, and your hunting pack can just act as a super-sized squadron for no drawback whatsoever?

 

[MongooseMatt]

However one change I noticed, "may nominate one target" rather than "must nominate one target". May implies choice. Surely every turn you must choose a target and can only attack that one? Otherwise you can basically choose to not ever nominate a target, and your hunting pack can just act as a super-sized squadron for no drawback whatsoever?

You do have the choice, yes - as the last line states, the Pack can operate as a squadron, but gets no Pack benefit for doing so.

 

[Burger]

Ha, we've been conned! The vote was to limit hunting pack to a single target, that is what 29 people voted for! I want my vote back!!

 

[MongooseMatt]

Ha, we've been conned! The vote was to limit hunting pack to a single target, that is what 29 people voted for! I want my vote back!!

It _is_ limited to a single target. If it does not take the bonus on range, there is no sense in limiting it any more than another squadron.

In games-speak, these ships are sharing targeting and sensor data at an extremely efficient level, but are not slaving their weapon systems to one another.

 

[Burger]

It _is_ limited to a single target. If it does not take the bonus on range, there is no sense in limiting it any more than another squadron.

When it acts as a normal squadron it does get one massive benefit: it has 6 ships instead of 4! FOR NO DRAWBACK WHATSOEVER!

Sorry but in my opinion that is a big advantage. Just ask the Dilgar!! The Centauri are getting a Pentacon on steroids, just without the skip ability in the movement phase. Surely you can see this in itself, ignoring the bonus range rules totally, is a big bonus with no drawbacks whatsoever?

2 out of 2 playtesters who've posted in this thread agree with me... as well as many experienced players... this IS what we thought we were voting for!

 

[AdrianH]

My suggestion: if a pack wants to pretend to be a normal squadron, fine. Normal squadron rules don't allow for more than four ships. If the pack contains more, pick one or two ships to leave the pack, permanently. That takes care of the over-sized squadron problem.

Whether it's a good idea to allow a squadron of four ships to switch between being a hunting pack and a regular squadron was already being argued before the PDF went up.

I would argue against saying the hunting pack must nominate a target, though. What happens if there is no target in range - must the pack, being unable to fulfill the requirement of a pack, now revert to being a basic squadron? I'd say the pack may nominate a target, that being the only ship which any member of the pack can attack. If the pack does not nominate a target for any reason, none of the pack can fire.

 

[MongooseMatt]

When it acts as a normal squadron it does get one massive benefit: i

That really isn't a massive benefit, on so many different levels. If Centauri players want to max out their Hunting Packs and never use the bonus, that is just fine by me and, I suspect, other players too.

Flipping it around, however, if you did have slaved weapon systems, it would be far too restrictive.