Books with different races

[Condottiere]

Sounds like circumcision.

I wonder if either the Zhodani or the Vilani had that custom?

 

[Sigtrygg]

I think that, mechanically, the Vilani are well-served by the default human rules, with differences being simply aesthetic (prevalence of tan/olive skin tones, light eye shades including amber-gold, etc.).

What I do think we're sorely missing though is a supplement that delves deep into Vilani culture, which has been very under-explored so far in Mongoose Traveller. Previous editions have also generally had information about the Vilani sort of scattered around, not concatenated in a single tome, with the exceptions of DGP's Dogs & Cogs Vargr & Vilani and GURPS Traveller's Interstellar Wars.

It's very hard for a newcomer to Charted Space to 'get' the Vilani presently, and I very much intend to go about changing that.

The majority of modern Traveller authors do not study enough the Vilani early history in my humble opinion
Yes the Ziru Sirka became technologically and culturally stagnant, but for thousands of years it was not this way...

The Vilani set up an intersteller polity over 500 years using STL ships (5300BC->4714BC)
Once they had the jump drive (4714BC) they traveled far and wide, exploring, trading, settling, occasionally conquering (sometimes scrubbing), Their trade hegemony extended for ~60 parsecs, peace, prosperity for all.

"This 3000-year period of exploration and exploitation was perhaps the most vital in Vilani history. But an empire more than 60 parsecs across is difficult for any government to rule. By 1480 BC, a starship took more than 60 weeks to cross Vilani territory from border to border. It was impossible for the careful, constant control that the Vilani believed in to be exercised across such vast distances. Over the course of several decades, the Vilani homeworld government established three subordinate governments - the Bureaux - which were each assigned a portion of the overall territory to govern, defend, and exploit."

The Bureaux maintained the status quo for centuries (1480BC->909BC)

Then, under mysterious circumstance, jump 2 was discovered (909BC), The Vilani also had a change of heart. Rather than allowing outlying worlds to use jump drive to expand further (out of Vilani oversight) which they had been doing the Vilani eventually launched the consolidation wars to stamp Vilani authority everywhere they could reach with their jump 2 drive. The wars lasted over a thousand years (880BC->476AD), at the end of which the Ziru Sirka was declared.

"Consolidation brought a marked change in the texture of Vilani society. Before, it had stressed peaceful expansion as neighboring worlds were assimilated in a trade community and absorbed into Vilani society.
Now, armed might and superior technology were used to force any and every neighboring culture into the fold. Over the next 1000 years, the Vilani conquered all of civilized space and absorbed enemies, allies, and neutrals alike. The Vilani jump-2 advantage virtually assured their ultimate
victory in the Consolidation Wars."

Unfortunately the Ziru Sirka would not just bring peace, but also cultural and technological stagnation, imposed from above. For over a thousand years until, to spinward/coreward, wolf like alien barbarians would raid territories and be bought off by local governors (or even employed as mercenaries) and to rimward a human world unknown to the Ziru Sirka would discover them...

I am of the opinion that many Vilani during the Long Night would rediscover their adventurous roots and overcome the imposed shackles of cultural and technological stagnation.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Sounds like circumcision.

I wonder if either the Zhodani or the Vilani had that custom?

I would hope genital mutilation of children of either sex would be outlawed by any civilised race.

 

[Vormaerin]

There is a difference between the Vilani people being culturally and technologically stagnant and the Ziru Sirka being so. Lots of human governments throughout our history have attempted to create a static status quo, with varying lengths of success. The Ziru Sirka was able to do so for longer than most because they actually did control "the whole world" until the Vargr and Solomani showed up.

 

[Jame Rowe]

The majority of modern Traveller authors do not study enough the Vilani early history in my humble opinion

Agreed.

I am of the opinion that many Vilani during the Long Night would rediscover their adventurous roots and overcome the imposed shackles of cultural and technological stagnation.

Probably, since the stagnation was most likely imposed from top down.
This is likely where much of the intermarriage began, as well as the adoption of sone Solomani traits.

 

[actionman]

I am of the opinion that many Vilani during the Long Night would rediscover their adventurous roots and overcome the imposed shackles of cultural and technological stagnation.

Since technological stagnation was imposed by government policies, changes in government policies could promote the opposite.

Let's face it, government research programs drive an immense portion of technological innovation, and war is a primary driver of government research programs. The 3rd Imperium had centuries of war from its founding, so it wouldn't be surprising if the Sylean Federation and then young 3rd Imperium cracked loose countless MCr of research funding.

Megacorporations free from anti-innovation policies would be free to start researching advances of their own.

Researchers would do as they were told.

 

[CordwainerFish]

There's a conversation in Niven's A World out of Time where Jerome Branch Corbell lectures his ship's computer about hydraulic despotisms (which damn near gets Corbell killed), and I'll bet a shiny new silver dollar that that's what inspired the idea of Vilani/Ziru Sirka stasis and the Terrans steamrollering them despite being outnumbered a gajillion to one.

 

[ottarrus]

I made a list of the ones in the books I have - here they are:

View attachment 3527

NICE work, Tom.

 

[ottarrus]

I think that, mechanically, the Vilani are well-served by the default human rules, with differences being simply aesthetic (prevalence of tan/olive skin tones, light eye shades including amber-gold, etc.).

What I do think we're sorely missing though is a supplement that delves deep into Vilani culture, which has been very under-explored so far in Mongoose Traveller. Previous editions have also generally had information about the Vilani sort of scattered around, not concatenated in a single tome, with the exceptions of DGP's Dogs & Cogs Vargr & Vilani and GURPS Traveller's Interstellar Wars.

It's very hard for a newcomer to Charted Space to 'get' the Vilani presently, and I very much intend to go about changing that.

I think GT: Interstellar Wars deals with Late Ziru Sirka culture exceedingly well.
But it's been almost 3000 years, the Rule of Man, a Long Night, and the Third Imperium since then. What I think is needed is something on 'modern' Vilani culture: how it's changed from what it was.

 

[ottarrus]

As to the original question, I think I'd rather see a book of alternate cultures of Humaniti that exist in the Third Imperium. I feel like the Big Three have been done nearly to death, though I do agree that of the three of them the Vilani get discussed the least.
GT did a Humaniti book, but I found it kind of unsatisfying... it was full of transhumanist supermen and stunted trolls, IMHO.
But I do think there ought to be more attention paid to the Answerin, the Lancians [we know very little about them], and other alternate peoples that have been lumped into Humaniti.
And an additional thought occurs to me... has Traveller simply abandoned the races from the T4 Aliens book? Some of them [though certainly not all] were pretty unique and interesting and I think would be a valuable addition to the Charted Space 'landscape'.

 

[ottarrus]

There's a conversation in Niven's A World out of Time where Jerome Branch Corbell lectures his ship's computer about hydraulic despotisms (which damn near gets Corbell killed), and I'll bet a shiny new silver dollar that that's what inspired the idea of Vilani/Ziru Sirka stasis and the Terrans steamrollering them despite being outnumbered a gajillion to one.

Much of the ZS v. Earth thing has direct parallels to the British Empire and the current American Hegemony.
The ZS had so many interest groups vying for attention that it could not focus all its efforts on a single problem, even when that problem threatened to destroy them. Ring any bells?

 

[actionman]

many Vilani during the Long Night would rediscover their adventurous roots

Something I have IMTU is the Vilani cultural impression of the ship captain as a "trickster" archetype. He's out there alone, responsible for his mission, his ship, and his crew, and through courage and guile he accomplishes his mission and keeps his ship and crew safe.

 

[ottarrus]

Something I have IMTU is the Vilani cultural impression of the ship captain as a "trickster" archetype. He's out there alone, responsible for his mission, his ship, and his crew, and through courage and guile he accomplishes his mission and keeps his ship and crew safe.

It's certainly one of the Vilani leadership archetypes, though probably not the favored one.
As I read the Vilani culture, the ship captain is the Skilled Manager, balancing the needs of the company with the needs of the ship, all the personalities of the crew, and leading the ship council so that everyone involved prospers.
The Wiley Trickster is definitely one of the leadership styles, but I see that rising after the 3-I is founded. This is the leadership style of the Free Trader Captain, the captain utterly responsible for everyone and everything to do with the ship and the crew.

 

[tzunder]

The men of the defeated population are killed, and the women end up with men of the conquering population, willingly or not. This is what creates somewhat of a total mixing effect. Even then, there will still be pure people of the conqueror population, since they will have families from the old country that will join them.

Plus there is an emergent view in history and anthropology that it is only the elite that shifts genetically to any extent, but that the conquered people change culturally and tend to adopt the dominant language, religions and culture of the conqueror. However not always, or only for a while, if the conquered culture is much deeper and stronger, in which case it envelops the invader and converts them - the Mongol/Manchurian/Turkic effect.. In the UK blending seems to happen often, and indeed English culture reasserts itself in the 12th and 13th century which is why we speak ENGLISH in England and not French.

 

[tzunder]

NICE work, Tom.

No Florians, though?

Traveller simply abandoned the races from the T4 Aliens book? Some of them [though certainly not all] were pretty unique and interesting

Totes agree, indeed I have it on my pile to reread and use.. maybe JTAS articles if nowhere else?

 

[actionman]

No Florians, though?

Totes agree, indeed I have it on my pile to reread and use.. maybe JTAS articles if nowhere else?

+1 for using totes in a sentence.

 

[actionman]

In the UK blending seems to happen often, and indeed English culture reasserts itself in the 12th and 13th century which is why we speak ENGLISH in England and not French.

This is one of the dynamics which I see assimilating the Solomani populations on Vilani worlds during the Long Night.

 

[Condottiere]

Not that many Celtic speakers left.

It's pretty likely that quite a number of aristocrats and ambitious bourgeoisie are multilingual.

 

[ottarrus]

In re: T4 Aliens, I just want to see the PCs reaction when they compare how a Han Saka and a Hiver eat. Is that too much to ask?
Or watching a Denaar change brains... that'll be fun...

 

[Nadia Grell]

I made a list of the ones in the books I have - here they are:

View attachment 3527

Syleans appear in the Third IMperium book.