Hiver Eye Stalks

[apastuszak]

I'm reading through 3 different books right now to compare them:

1. Mongoose Traveller Aliens of Charted Space Volume 2
2. GURPS Traveller Aliens races 3
3. CT Alien Module 07 - Hivers

All 3 books have Hivers with 12 stalks on their "heads." But CT and GT say that 6 stalks are for visible light, 3 for infrared light, and 3 for ears. Mongoose's book says that Hivers have 3 stalks for visible light, 3 for infrared light, and 6 for ears.

I don't have any other editions of Traveller to compare, so I don't know if Hiver stalks changed before Mongoose started publication and they inherited the change, or if Mongoose changed the Hivers.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Hmm, a canon conflict, I wonder who changed stuff?

Here is what TNE has to say:

It consists of six manipulative fingers identical to those of the hands, but in addition has six eyestalks, three infrared sensor organs and three ears placed around the "neck" near the end of the hand or "head." The eyestalks are extremely flexible, and can be pointed in almost any direction independently of each other. The eyes can be withdrawn into the supple skin of the eyestalks for protection or for routine washing (like human blinking), but are usually extended so that some two-thirds of their surface is exposed at the end of the stalk, giving them a sort of "bug-eyed" look.
The ears and infrared sensors are mounted flush on the surface of the limb, so can only be pointed as a group by moving the head.
The infrared and auditory sensors are virtually indistinguishable from each other to the casual observer and are spaced alternately in a single ring, ear-IR-ear-IR-ear-IR. Each of these organs is situated in the gap between and behind two adjacent eyestalks, rather than directly behind them.

CT AM says:

The Prime Limb: The head (actually a sense-organ cluster) is a modification of one of the limbs and contains six eyestalks
and six manipulative tentacles, plus three infrared sensor organs and three ears placed around the circumference of the modified
limb. There is no sound-producing organ. The six flexible eyestalks can be turned in any direction independently, but are generally used in pairs to provide binocular vision. The brain can process data from up to three pairs of eyes at one time, and a Hiver can see everything in a 360° circle
simultaneously. Hiver vision is equal to that of a human in normal light. The infrared sensors work in conjunction with eyestalk pairs to help vision when underground or without proper illumination.
Hiver hearing is about equal to the human sense

12 stalks
6 manipulators
6 eyes
in addition
3 IR sensors
3 ears
the ears and the IR sensors are not on eyestalks.

 

[Sigtrygg]

And finally GT:

(note each limb has six manipulators the following are in addition)

Each of the Hiver’s six eyes is mounted on its own slender stalk, one in each inter-finger gap. The stalks are flexible and independently moveable, allowing the Hiver to look in six directions at once. However, to allow binocular vision and depth perception, Hivers generally use the eyes in three pairs. The eyes can be retracted into the fleshy lids at the end of the stalks for protection and routinecleaning, which the Hiver does automatically every few seconds. When extended, the eyes are about two-thirds exposed, giving a somewhat “bug-eyed” appearance.
The combination of mobile eyes and manipulative digits on this limb make it an extraordinarily useful tool for Hivers. Objects or tools can be held by the prime limb, examined at close range by the eyes, and manipulated with very fine control. Since the Hiver can insert this unified examination-manipulation limb into places it cannot take its bulky body, this provides a capability not available to Humans with their separate heads and hands.
Six further sensory organs are mounted on the prime limb, in a ring around the “neck” or “wrist” of the limb behind the base of the fingers. These are externally indistinguishable from each other, but three of them are ears and the other three are infrared sensors, placed alternatively. These organs are sited to the rear of and between the eyestalk bases – i.e., behind the backs of the fingers. This leads Hivers to close their prime limb fingers to unblock these organs when they attempt to listen to something or see something in the dark.

The author of MGT AM2 has got it very very wrong

Hivers have six eyeballs on their primary limb<correct>. Three see in the usual visual spectrum, three in the infrared<WRONG>. Between the eyestalks and a little behind them are six ears.<WRONG> This limb can be used for stability when moving but as this restricts vision it is more common for a Hiver to walk on five limbs with the ‘head’ up. Hiver hearing is roughly the same as that of humans but peak response is in the very low frequencies. Hivers have no vocal chords, relying on visual signals for communication.

So is this a deliberate change from 3 distinct canon sources, is it the author taking artistic licence, is it the author not doing thorough research, is it the author using their head canon or vague memory instead of looking it up?

 

[apastuszak]

Simple errata could handle this. I don't think the number of eye stalks, IR sensors or ears really matters overall to the rest of the book.

I guess the real question is, is the MGT book wrong, or has canon officially changed?

 

[apastuszak]

Just to add to the quotes. From Mark Miller's Traveller (T4)

Hivers are descended from omnivore gatherer/scavengers who lived in the tunnels and mounds of a very large burrowing animal on their homeworld. The primitive Hivers provided the burrower food in exchange for shelter, growing fungus and foraging the surrounding area for food. Intelligence arose when climatic change forced foragers to range farther from the nest and then to cooperate to trap live game. Their bodies display a modified six-fold radial symmetry, the limbs and head protruding from a fused carapace section that houses the brain and internal organs. The head is a modification of one of the limbs and contains six eyestalks and six manipulative tentacles, plus paired infrared sensor organs and three ears placed around the neck near the head.

 

[apastuszak]

HERO Traveller

The Prime Limb: The head (actually a sense-organ cluster) is a modification of one of the limbs and contains six eyestalks and six manipulative tentacles, plus three infrared sensor organs and three ears placed around the circumference of the modified limb. There is no sound-producing organ. The six flexible eyestalks can be turned in any direction independently, but are generally used in pairs to provide binocular vision. The brain can process data from up to three pairs of eyes at one time, and a Hiver can see everything in a 360° circle simultaneously. Hiver vision is equal to that of a human in normal light. The infrared sensors work in conjunction with eyestalk pairs to help vision when underground or without proper illumination.

 

[Grognardia]

Simple errata could handle this. I don't think the number of eye stalks, IR sensors or ears really matters overall to the rest of the book.

I guess the real question is, is the MGT book wrong, or has canon officially changed?

Not the first time a Mongoose book suffers from poor errata....

 

[apastuszak]

Well, now that I have pointed out this inconsequential minutia, we'll see if Mongoose thinks it warrants errata or if it's a canon change.

 

[ottarrus]

God, are we actually arguing over which tentacle a Squiggle sees out of.
Yes, we sho'nuff are

 

[G'Naakbusters]

The Hivers are clearly seeding the literature with slight variations on the theme of their sensory organs as part of a complex experiment. Evidently different Imperial databases say different things depending on which Hiver sources they got their information from. The Hivers are pleased at the confusion.

Actually, it seems like the disagreement is just in whether one sensor corresponds to one eyestalk, hence three eyes that can see infrared and three that can't. But Classic Traveller says they work in conjunction with eyestalk pairs, so it seems that one sensor links with two eyes.

Or maybe it depends on the Hiver, like the smell issue.

 

[Sigtrygg]

God, are we actually arguing over which tentacle a Squiggle sees out of.
Yes, we sho'nuff are

No, we are discussing yet another blatant canonical error.
Is it a deliberate change or is it a mistake, an easily avoidable mistake.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Actually, it seems like the disagreement is just in whether one sensor corresponds to one eyestalk, hence three eyes that can see infrared and three that can't. But Classic Traveller says they work in conjunction with eyestalk pairs, so it seems that one sensor links with two eyes.

No. MGT says there are 6 eyestalks, 3 visible light and 3 IR, this is wrong. MGT says there are six ears, this is also wrong.

BY wrong I mean it conflicts with all previous editions and canon.

 

[apastuszak]

The Hivers are clearly seeding the literature with slight variations on the theme of their sensory organs as part of a complex experiment. Evidently different Imperial databases say different things depending on which Hiver sources they got their information from. The Hivers are pleased at the confusion.

Actually, it seems like the disagreement is just in whether one sensor corresponds to one eyestalk, hence three eyes that can see infrared and three that can't. But Classic Traveller says they work in conjunction with eyestalk pairs, so it seems that one sensor links with two eyes.

Or maybe it depends on the Hiver, like the smell issue.

This is just classic Hiver manipulation to change canon. How long before the Hiver that did this gets an M. in front of their name?

 

[apastuszak]

No. MGT says there are 6 eyestalks, 3 visible light and 3 IR, this is wrong. MGT says there are six ears, this is also wrong.

BY wrong I mean it conflicts with all previous editions and canon.

I'm curious. Does it even matter? Will it affect game play?

It would be nice for MGT to be the same as all editions before it for tentacles, but does it need to be other than for consistency.

BTW, this is all my GM's fault for adding an NPC Hiver to our crew.

 

[CordwainerFish]

God, are we actually arguing over which tentacle a Squiggle sees out of.
Yes, we sho'nuff are

The smaller the stakes, the longer and more ridiculous the argument.

 

[Geir]

I'm sorry, but all I can think of from this discussion is whether Hiver babies are better stir-fried or breaded like calamari and what happens if you add them to a K'kree salad bar. Might even stop a war...
(and now it's lunch time)

 

[G'Naakbusters]

I'm sorry, but all I can think of from this discussion is whether Hiver babies are better stir-fried or breaded like calamari and what happens if you add them to a K'kree salad bar. Might even stop a war...
(and now it's lunch time)

The Hiver-K'kree War is possibly the only conflict in which the side that wants to stop babies being eaten is the less sympathetic.

 

[agentwigggles]

I read the things that stygg shared, and their similar but not the same. Doesnt seem that different whats in mongoose.

 

[ottarrus]

All of this nonsense is solved by four simple letters:
IYTU
Seriously, when GDW Traveller sources over several editions aren't consistent with a truly trivial piece of information, then just frikkin' wing it and have done with it.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I read the things that stygg shared, and their similar but not the same. Doesnt seem that different whats in mongoose.

The prose is different but the details are identical, not just similar. Why defend an error in a MgT supplement?
6 manipulators
6 eyestalks for visible light working in pairs
3 IR sensors
3 ears