Battleships of the various races?
- Thread starter Annatar Giftbringer
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Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
Does it look anything like this?
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Reynard said:
The Vargr ship will not use Staterooms, it will all be Barracks - pack sleeping arrangements. That will free up some more space...
Also, I would go wild with the variations in TL between components; even on ships built by the bigger, longer lasting powers; as they try to optimize their designs for the mission.
Tom Kalbfus
Mongoose
Do they have formations called "Wolf Packs"?Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
AndrewW said:
But officers usually get a single stateroom (4 tons each), while a Vargr officer will still use the Barracks.
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
The issue of Vargr staterooms surprised me when I first read their alien manual. From their description as pack oriented I thought they'd have very small staterooms, or even barracks for the crew, and use more space for common rooms where the entire pack can be together. But looking at the ship section of the book, they use the same 6 square rooms as everyone else, and the common rooms aren't noticably larger than other races' either, in fact some designs have small or even no common rooms at all!
To be fair, most designs are small ships, and there might not be space for more, and the book does point out that double-bunking is common for them, seemingly even among officers and passengers.
Speaking of barracks and staterooms, is it possible to doublebunk with barracks?
Even if it isn't the stateroom would still leave more room for its occupants, even with double occupancy. Assuming both the barrack and the stateroom sacrifice 1 dton per room/passenger to free up space for common room, galley and so on, that leaves 3 dton per stateroom and just one dton per barrack space, so doublee occupancy gives each person 1,5 dton while the barrack-occupant is left with a single dton.
To be fair, most designs are small ships, and there might not be space for more, and the book does point out that double-bunking is common for them, seemingly even among officers and passengers.
Speaking of barracks and staterooms, is it possible to doublebunk with barracks?
Even if it isn't the stateroom would still leave more room for its occupants, even with double occupancy. Assuming both the barrack and the stateroom sacrifice 1 dton per room/passenger to free up space for common room, galley and so on, that leaves 3 dton per stateroom and just one dton per barrack space, so doublee occupancy gives each person 1,5 dton while the barrack-occupant is left with a single dton.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
As is being discussed in another thread about Deckplan problems, I think the alien ship designs lack the uniquemess that you would expect from aliens (such as Vargr staterooms).
Even if you decide to use the same VOLUME as a Stateroom for each Vargr, the desciption section says it should be open/pack space rather than individual cabins.
Some of the old Classic Traveller designs by FASA did a good job with this idea, but the Mongoose stuff is just to cookie-cutter.
I would love to see someone do up a 200 Free Trader for each species with emphasis on how the layouts are different, even if the stats are almost identical.
HUMM
Even if you decide to use the same VOLUME as a Stateroom for each Vargr, the desciption section says it should be open/pack space rather than individual cabins.
Some of the old Classic Traveller designs by FASA did a good job with this idea, but the Mongoose stuff is just to cookie-cutter.
I would love to see someone do up a 200 Free Trader for each species with emphasis on how the layouts are different, even if the stats are almost identical.
HUMM
Nathan Brazil
Banded Mongoose
K'Kree standard designs are different but boring. GDW Alien Module 2 K'kree has their ships being 1-deck affairs with no or few partitions (herd members can smell/see each other) Living requirements are at least 4x standard (16 tons per crew/passenger member). Even their military ships, lest the crew members get panicky faster...
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
AndrewW said:
Ah, fair enough with the double-bunking. Might get a bit too cozy (unless you're a sword worlder - go cramped barracks!)
Half a dton sounds reasonable, I just picked a number, haven't done any real research in the matter.
Though I have seen some interresting deckplans where the staterooms are 2 dtons and the rest goes to common room, offer ward rooms and such.
But basically the major difference between barracks and double occupancy staterooms is the level of privacy and comfort then? Of course it should be possible to partition off barracks space too, to give some privacy. Even if they both require the same amount of space (if double-bunking) the stateroom is still the only one 'allowed' for crew and passengers, right?
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Exactly! Sure the vargr can use double occupancy even for high passage passenger rooms, but it would be interesting with either small (1-2 dton) single/dual sleep chambers and large common rooms/lounges (possibly several rooms too. A large hall for everyone and a couple smaller ones for small groups) or even no personal sleep quarters, just a collective hall - kinda like in typical barracks, but still pay 4 dtons per occupant.
The free trader thing sounds like a great idea! The exact same stats should be able to create very different layouts when culture gets thrown into the mix.
It would be nice to see design rules for the specifics on the various races. Vargr sleeping together makes for smaller stateroom tonnage, but maybe they have/require larger other rooms? K'kree spaceships are definitely much larger to physically accommodate them, with few enclosed spaces. But still, it's a spaceship, so some thought has to go into compartmentalization in the case of a hull breach.
Droyne, with their much smaller stature would have much tinier staterooms, which means they could cram more per ship, or set aside more space for cargo, fuel, etc.
I much prefer seeing a 100Dton scoutship for each race, for example, to show how different races view the same task through different eyes.
Much more interesting than Scout ship, 100dton, 1ea.
Droyne, with their much smaller stature would have much tinier staterooms, which means they could cram more per ship, or set aside more space for cargo, fuel, etc.
I much prefer seeing a 100Dton scoutship for each race, for example, to show how different races view the same task through different eyes.
Much more interesting than Scout ship, 100dton, 1ea.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
I felt that many of the race books DID give guidance for stateroom and ship designs, but then the deckplans in that same book did not follow the design guidance given.
Very frustrating.
Very frustrating.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
Most designs are graphic image rather than game mechanic. Aslan vehicles are highly artistic with flowing lines and patterns. Vargr looked thrown together and patchwork as if the engineers and shipbuilders couldn't agree. K'kree are the classic saucer and big. The only picture for Hiver I found was long and cylindrical with rounded features. Ships build specifically for Droyne would have small corridors and living facilities. Not sure about Zhodani but I saw one Solomani ship as close to the Millennium Falcon and another very clunky and hard edged features.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Nathan Brazil said:
1. Once you get into the realm of dreadnoughts as descriptive, cruisers aren't capital ships, so the author may be referring to battlecruisers rather than the heavy variety, which would have capital class spinal mounts.
2. Mid range tonnage, or old fashioned frigate built ships are vital for independent operations, flotilla flagships, screening and reconnaissance, as well as testbedding. But if the Solomani are stuck with this composition, they're likely to construct unique hulls rather than classes. There may also be a longer time between refits, as they've a considerably smaller pool to fulfil the usual missions. Also, there might be a faster turnover of senior officers, as the intermediate career stage to a capital ship posting.
3. This hull gap would seem to be between 3K to 90K; they could fill it with what you term assault carriers (100K) that would be general purpose warships, and auxiliary cruisers, which would be (large) commercial hulls purposed for military missions. Not sure if you can retrofit in a small spinal mount. If they built in more capability in the troop transports, they could have a respectable smallcraft component, and some stand-off weaponry.
4. The Solomani Navy could forward base TL12 and TL13 capital ships to deal with situations that would have required the presence of cruiser fire power, while retaining their TL14 capital ships in reserve, with the battlecruisers acting as a fast response force.
5. At the lower end of the scale, it seems that Adventure Class ships are only available, so the logical thing would be to commission as many 2K hulls as possible, which would act as high endurance large cutters or light destroyers, that should be more than a match for most corsairs or pirates. This would allow their captains to be more pro-active with dealing with situations as they occur. Presumably, the primary reason for this limitation is that most commercial shipyards would be able to build them, allowing the more specialized military ones to concentrate on the capital ship construction.
6. Hard to say how relevant Fighting Ships of the Solomani is to the current Mongoose canon, since it's author's take was that the Solomani Navy had a large (smallcraft) carrier component in the Rim War, and would indicate that the cruiser gap was a rather recent occurrence.
The only racial speciality for space ship I can remember are the shrines for Aslan (basically one stateroom of wasted space for an ancestor shrine per X crew).
Also, I think Aslan use more fighters than big ships, so most of those potential massive ships would be carriers if they exist at all. Why build one massive carrier when you can build 10 smaller carrier which can deploy nearly the same amount of fighters and are more flexible.
Also, I think Aslan use more fighters than big ships, so most of those potential massive ships would be carriers if they exist at all. Why build one massive carrier when you can build 10 smaller carrier which can deploy nearly the same amount of fighters and are more flexible.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
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