Banned ship weapons

[Jak Nazryth]

I have read statements over several boards where people state that Particle weapons are for military only and illegal on merchant ships. (Mostly on COTI)
Is this just home rules or something left over from previous game systems?
I cannot find references in the core book that prohibit particle turrets, barbettes, or any kind of weapon really from being placed on a non-military craft. Can anyone point it out?
Obviously the Emperium would have prohibitions on spinal mounts, but I think any kind of turret or barbette would be open to anyone.
My players want at least 1 p-weapon for their ship. Finalizing the design tonight.

 

[GypsyComet]

The perception comes from two CT references, I suspect.

The first is the appearance of PA barbettes on exactly one published (by GDW) vessel, the paramilitary Close Escorts of the Gazelle class. The article, back in the very early days of JTAS, suggests strongly that escort vessels with this kind of firepower require official permission of some sort.

Secondly we have the decommissioning story of one of the Lightning class cruisers, allowed through some bureaucratic oddity to pass into civilian hands (Oberlindes Lines, specifically) with *all* of its weaponry. It is explained that this makes the ship unwelcome in Imperial space, making it the de facto flagship of Oberlindes in Vargr space.

These, and the much later MT article on Star Mercs, provide a distinct impression that anything beyond Laser-Missile-Sand requires licenses, permission from important people, and a really good excuse.

 

[DFW]

I have read statements over several boards where people state that Particle weapons are for military only and illegal on merchant ships. (Mostly on COTI)
Is this just home rules or something left over from previous game systems?
I cannot find references in the core book that prohibit particle turrets, barbettes, or any kind of weapon really from being placed on a non-military craft.

No, it is just someones house rule. No game rule prohibition.

 

[GypsyComet]

More correctly, it is a "rule" of the setting, just as "most Zhodani civilian vessels are unarmed" is.

If you want to ignore the "rule" completely, or state (not necessarily where your players can hear) that the ship you are designing has the necessary papers to mount such weaponry, then by all means do so.

It's *your* game.

 

[DFW]

More correctly, it is a "rule" of the setting,

Umm, no. There is no such setting rule.

 

[GypsyComet]

I've already stated my sources. If you want to stick to MGT sources, you get to be right, too.

 

[DFW]

I've already stated my sources. If you want to stick to MGT sources, you get to be right, too.

Yep, No rule book states PA turrets are illegal. It's just not there, sorry.

 

[GypsyComet]

Ah, semantics. Just one more indication that you and I are not playing the same game, even though we both call it Traveller.

Not to worry, this is far more common than most Traveller players seem to realize.

 

[apoc527]

Indeed everyone is right. FWIW, I have legal classes for weapons. Particle weapons are not civilian legal. They are military weapons IMTU.

 

[locarno24]

Yep. The only weapon which the Mongoose core book makes reference to is the Nuke, which is, in whatever form (i.e. including Nuclear Missiles and Nuclear Torpedoes), restricted to Imperial possession.

Well - it also mentions "equivalent weapons of mass destruction", so I'd assume the Ortillery Railgun qualifies too. Mind you explaining why any civilian ship needs ortillery mounts will take some doing.

 

[barnest2]

Well - it also mentions "equivalent weapons of mass destruction", so I'd assume the Ortillery Railgun qualifies too. Mind you explaining why any civilian ship needs ortillery mounts will take some doing.

Making a landing pad :twisted:

 

[DFW]

Ah, semantics.

No, reality.

 

[GypsyComet]

Nope.

First, its a game, so not "reality"

Second, you are using a different interpretation of the world "rule" than I was. That's semantics.

Third, other people are allowed to be correct, even if you persist in getting the last word in.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Central Supply Catalogue. Pages 21-22. Classification of weapons and allowed ownership.

Class 1 - 5 are noted.

Class 6 (prohibited) : Blanket ban, special permits only.
Examples:
Nuclear weapons.
Antimatter power systems.
Chemical and Biological weapons other than non-lethals
(tranquilisers and tear gas).
Starship-grade meson guns and particle accelerators.
Electromagnetic Pulse weaponry capable of large-scale eff ects.

I play this as Hurscarle of a powerful ruling noble, the very best starmercs who are ex imperial navy. the Imperial navy itself, and all those criminal types like pirates, corsairs and travellers :lol:

Non Imperials on the boarders have thier own rules and its situation dependant. Deep in secure Imperial space such permits are less likely than in the coridor sector or facing off against the Kkree, Aslan, Zho or any other known hostile power.

For pirates they are only common where the pirates have the support to maintain the comlex weapons. A good support base and techs. In terms of the death penalty for being caught with P-Beams, well if the penalty for piracy is death anyway why worry :lol:

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Since particle accelerators are grouped with meson guns in this sentence, I am going to assume who ever created these rules are referring to Bay weapons and Spinal mounts, since that is the only way you can mount a mesen gun on a ship.
But out in the outskirts of the Emperium when ships are constantly going in and out of Emperial space, I'm not sure a p-beam turret would even raise an eyebrow. Have it in the core sectors, then I might understand. A merchant with any weapons at all in the core sectors would probably raise two eyebrows...
It's also curious that these two items are the only star ship based weapons on any categories. And firing super heated... OBVIOUSLY... fusion from a merchant ship must be fine since it is not under the prohibited list! :wink:

 

[far-trader]

FWIW my (mostly OTU) TU breakdown has long been:

Civilian - Turret Weapons maximum, up to TL12* maximum

Para-Military - Bay Weapons maximum, up to TL14* maximum

Military - Spinal Weapons maximum, up to TL15+

...based on general background material of the Imperium setting. There is no blanket "no nukes" law, but it's not easy for civilians to get a nuclear warhead. And possessing or using one will require some explanation. Para-military operations can with the correct clearances. Military operations routinely do so.

* CT High Guard TL breakpoints, not sure they translate well to MgT, also the ship building TL limitations for MTU

 

[GypsyComet]

It's also curious that these two items are the only star ship based weapons on any categories. And firing super heated... OBVIOUSLY... fusion from a merchant ship must be fine since it is not under the prohibited list! :wink:

Plasma and Fusion turrets and bays are not going to be common on civilian ships for economic reasons, as they are expensive to acquire and operate. They are also not going to really worry enforcement agencies who do have a paramil license because (under most editions) plasma and fusion weapons are purely short-ranged. A PA can carve you to pieces before you ever get into Plasma range.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I wish there were plasma guns in Mongoose. I think I will introduce them based on GURPS and T20.
Turret based, 3d6 with short range and "Max Range" as medium. All other weapons can target ranges out to extreme ranges, you just get more penalties for targeting. Plasma bolts simply"pop" after their magnetic field holding the plasma bolt together finally reaches it's absolute range limit. Per the GURPS rules, and plasma cannon takes up 1.5 spaces in a turret, meaning you can fit 1 plasma cannon in a double turret, or 2 plasma cannons in a triple turret. The do 1 dice more than a pulse laser, but can only fit 2 max in a turret when you can fit 3 pulse lasers, and a pulse laser can fire at long range and farther, just harder to hit. A P-beam can takes up all three spaces in a triple turret, does the same amount of dice damage, but also does a crew hit, plus it has great range.
A railgun barbette only does 3 dice damage, (when a p-beam barbette does 4d6+crewhit) BUT it is armor piercing as I describe below.

So I think a 3 dice, turret mounted plasma cannon is a good round number and is approximate to the damage from some of the other systems (mostly from GURPS)

I'm keeping the armor piercing aspect of rail guns IMTU. They are ship sized bullets flying out of a ship sized gauss cannons meant to penetrate ship scaled armor. I'm not as particular about real world, hard core physics as a lot of people on the boards. I keep the perspective that this is still a science fantasy/fiction role playing game. 8)
Most ground forces would rather use a gauss rifle over a laser rifle any day! I'm just keeping a consistent game mechanic for gauss weapons but on a larger scale. It is just such a short ranged, large barbette sized weapon, that only doing 3d6, and limited ammo, it needs to have it's own unique advantage. The same advantage that all gauss weapons have, armor shredding! :twisted:

 

[Boneguard]

My personal view is to look at wepaon and slip them into 3 groups:
Civilians = Defensive weapon only.
Paramilitary (eg. Licended mercs and bounty hunter, homeguard fleet and 'police' fleet) = Defense and lower-end offensive weapon
Military = Everything that you can afford.

Let's be honest...an honest civilian carrying offensive weapon on his ship would be asking for trouble, but -since space is full of danger- defencive wepaon would be expected to help ward off attack while the authority get there.

Now, if you player want to put in weapon that are 'beyond' what would be appropriate to their 'social, status, let them., but don't make it easy.
1) Have them contack the black market to find one (might be easier said then done if no one has criminal contact);
2) Buy the prohibited weapon -at a much higher cost of coarse, instalation not included, police/military trouble included;
3) Find someone willing enough to install it...without blowing the whistle;
4) Being arrested upon departure/arrival/routine patrol for carrying said weapon;
5) Not being able to produce proper paper for possessing said weapon;
6) Subsequent arrest/impounding of ship (followed by trial, jail time or a manhunt if they are stupid enough to resist arrest and attack the Law).

With that your problem should be solved.

 

[DFW]

My personal view is to look at wepaon and slip them into 3 groups:
Civilians = Defensive weapon only.

There is only one real defensive weapon. Sand...