Armageddon ships, how useful are they?

[Zeru]

A friend and I have recently had an arguement over the effectiveness of these large ships, considering all the things you could get for a single armageddon point.

So my questions are the following;

What Armageddon class ships are effective, and what are they effective at?

For those not considered effective, why?

How do specific Armageddon class ships fair against swarms? or against 2 War vessals at once? etc.

 

[animus]

I don't have any direct experience (yet) but it would appear from what I've heard on the boards, that the changes in 2e have made them useful, even desirable.

 

[Zeru]

I just can't see any Armageddon class ship taking 36 Blue Stars.

Speaking of Blue Stars my friends see them as by far the best Patrol ship in the game, and say that it should probably be higher, and considering how well they have performed for me, I am starting to believe they may be right.

 

[Silvereye]

I just can't see any Armageddon class ship taking 36 Blue Stars.

But that is like one Armageddon class ship trying to take on two Armageddon class ships as you now only get 18 Patrol level choices per Armageddon point now. Just watch out for the Haven, Sho'Ko* and Tethys that come two to a Patrol point (2fers).

 

[Tolwyn]

I agree, the Bluestar is definitly too good.

But back to topic :wink: .
A friend of mine and myself tried an Adira against a fleet of smaller ships under 1st Edition rules. The Adira never got a shot, because of a lucky critical in turn 1 from a Primus.

I hope this will change in 2nd Ed

 

[Silvereye]

The 2e Critical Hit table is much more forgiving on the larger PL ships, particularly as the No Weapons Fire has been removed. It is still possible to get all your arcs disabled, but it now takes one Critical for each arc.

 

[Dizzy Vree]

the Victory, Ka'Bin'Tak and Adira are considerd the most affective
the Victrory and Adira are both very tough, but while Victory has increadible front arc weapons while the Adira Is a very good swarm-brawler, the Ka'Bin'Tak is just a big Bin Tak, so its flipin scary

 

[thehod]

the scariest thing I saw was in a playtest 1 v 1 my Victory 1 shotted a Ka Bin'Tak with the Vorlon Gun of Death. Lots and alots of beam hits and quad damage. FUnny thing though is I managed to kill it by de-crewing the ship which I thought was impossible but I got a 6-5 crit and rolled a 16. :shock:

 

[thePirv]

The Arma level ships will be totally worth it in some games and scenarios and a total waste of points in others, it all depends on the game you're playing and what your opponent takes. But since this is true for almost every ship in the game, Arma level ships can be as useful or as useless as anything else.

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

I agree completely. No ship is going to be effective in every situation against every typoe of opponent. If they were everyone would take them and nothing else. It also depends on how you play your games though. If you prefer to play with a lot of smaller ships, in sqaudrons or individually, then maybe Armageddon ships aren't for you, but if you like to take a few big bruisers and weather the bee-stings of smaller ships until you can kill them with a single shot then they should definitely appeal to you.

Basically they won't appeal to everyone, but then again niether will taking Patrol level ships.

 

[Zeru]

I just can't see any Armageddon class ship taking 36 Blue Stars.

But that is like one Armageddon class ship trying to take on two Armageddon class ships as you now only get 18 Patrol level choices per Armageddon point now. Just watch out for the Haven, Sho'Ko* and Tethys that come two to a Patrol point (2fers).

My bad let me clarifty (I also put the wrong number)

In a 8 point raid they certainly do come in packs of 32, it is only when you split up battle+ that you get less of a return.

About Blue Star's My friends are convinced that 20 Blue Stars is by far the best fleet the ISA can throw out in a 5 point raid a majority of the time, and not much directly counters it.

 

[katadder]

Gaim/narn/brakiri/pak counter it with e-mines. alot of other races can counter it with fighters. then theres the fact that you have to get within 8" with bluestars which is most peoples secondary range and with hull 4 you will get hit alot and it doesnt take much to take them down.

 

[Triggy]

About Blue Star's My friends are convinced that 20 Blue Stars is by far the best fleet the ISA can throw out in a 5 point raid a majority of the time, and not much directly counters it.

I'd tend to agree with this as one of the more powerful fleets out there, only really matched by Centauri (Demos and Centurions) or other ISA fleets with a mix of White Stars, White Star Gunships and Blue Stars.

 

[katadder]

its actually very fragile.
but it comes down to the swarm thing. as everyone said swarms beat up on alot of stuff.
any fleet can take it on and have a chance of winning, the bluestars have no fighter defense, have short range weapons which usually gets them into range of enemy secondaries, have no beams so need 5+ to hit hull 6 ships, have no scouts so cannot make use of JPs, their weapons can be intercepted.
they are only hull 4, ok they have dodge and AA, but shoot plenty of weapons at them and only one needs to get through to do 20% of its damage.

 

[Zeru]

As much as I agree with alot of your logic, my friends remain stubborn over the issue.

Dodge seems to be a primary problem, no matter how much dice you throw at them, they just don't die against most of it because of a 3+ dodge.

I see several Patrol level craft that shoot better then a Blue Star, and I know there are several who can outmass or outmanuever them.

But the Blue Star's have a very good weapon and are incrediably tough for a patrol level ship.

The Accurate on their weapons chew up fighters pretty well, not to mention many other patrol ships.

I personally would never field a full Blue Star fleet (As I would find it immensely boring and uninteresting)

I would probably go with 8 Blue Stars and 2 White Stars and 1 White Star 2, or maybe some of those skirmish level escorts instead of the White Star 2.

 

[katadder]

thing is accurate is only any good if the enemy fighters are in range in front arc, with range 8 ask the drakh players how useful the light raider is as an anti-fighter ship, it doesnt work.
as for dodge, well its like shooting at marines in 40k, shoot them enough they go down, and 3+ save has never been a big thing there (when not using AP3 weapons i am talking) when shooting them with standard weapons like shuriken catapults, and there you have to hit and wound, here its just the hit.

 

[Twin-Linked Aldades]

Armageddon ships are worth their points because they are nice big ships that look good on a tabletop in big battles.

Screw the rules effectiveness, hail the esthetics :lol:

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I'd definitely use an Adira in suitably-high level games, but only if there was a decent model for it. The current one is too nasty.

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

Thing is there isn't exactly too much that can be done in terms of detail on larger ships.

 

[Voronesh]

How do you mean that?

Kinda like the bigger the ship, the more metal you need, the less detail can be accurately fleshed out??

(I have no experience with model making and such....)