Armageddon for the Dilgar

[blackphoenix]

I couldn't ever really see the Dilgar having an Armageddon level ship - if their ships could be defeated by Earth Raid-level ships, then they couldn't have been that good, as we know the Dilgar had loads of ships from the Dilgar Imperium book. So I just couldn't accept it really.

Well to a point. Looking at b5wars for a moment the Nova was on par with the Mishakur Dreadnought in both points and firepower.

So whether or not the Dilgar got beat by Earth "raid" ships is a matter of opinion and which system you're looking at.

But back to the discussion. I don't see any reason the Dilgar should have an Armeggedon ship. The only exception would be a "better" command unit of the Mankhat. Same hull, but better command abilities and greater firepower. But still just a "Variant".

 

[Voronesh]

In an odd sort of way, you have to give Mongoose credit for being masochistic enough to do the opposite;
Games Workshop make- alright, their quality's got spottier lately, but generally pretty damn' good minis, at stupid prices, and get people to buy them by inflating their game stats to the point where they seem worth it.
Mongoose are making bizarrely under- detailed minis, at even more stupid prices, and deterring people from purchasing them with their in game performance.
It is definitely a different business model.

Well yeah........

I would not have a problem buying a balanced Armageddon lvl ship, (Have only seen the S&P, So Minbari sucks, and for EA need to see rest of the fleet) if it would look good.

But for 50 bucks i get a full unit of Manowar Shocktroopers for another tabletop.......... Thats 5 guys on 40mm bases......with more detail on every one of them............

Yes if is a curious marketing model.

 

[TenaciousB]

I still think its a good idea to give all the races at least 1 ship at each priority level - may not fit with the Mongoose decision-makers and bean-counters, but at least Mongoose could say they filled out the priority levels and at least made an attempt to properly balance the fleets.

Plus, I would get my Dilgar Armageddon level ship.

 

[lastbesthope]

There's a difference between having one of everything and being balanced. How many navies have aircraft carriers, even a pocket one like the Ark Royal/Invincible/Illustrious. Doesn't mean navies without one are unbalanced.

LBH

 

[Ripple]

How many navies in the real world are balanced?

Lets try to remember game balance is not a historical concept, its an attempt to make sure a game is fun for both sides. Would you want to play monopoly if your opponent started with Boardwalk and Park Place at the start?

Ripple

 

[TenaciousB]

lbh,

I'm not talking about balance in real world terms, or even gameplay terms - i'm talking about balance in terms of certain races getting yet more ships (which they didn't necessarily need), plus getting Armageddon-level ships, whilst a lot of the other races get left behind.

I'm a Dilgar player, first and foremost. I love the fluff, I love the ships, and I love the rules and how they play as a fleet. I also reckon that there is room for improvement with the Dilgar, and seeing all of the other races getting improvements and newer ships, makes me wonder what sort of future the Dilgar have within the game. The same can be said for the Drakh - the new kids on the block, so to speak, and they too get left out of Armageddon.

I haven't read the Armageddon book yet, but from what I've read on the forums, it seems that if you're a Dilgar or Drakh player (Raiders players - are you also misrepresented?), the book is pretty much useless. Whether this is deliberate or not, I don't know - perhaps there will be a V2 of Armageddon, just for the Dilgar and Drakh. I won't hold my breath, though - it seem the main message of the book is "if u can't beat 'em, join 'em", so I'll be expected to buy one of the fleets that got upgraded with a precious Armageddon-level ship, just so I can compete with the bigger boys. It may be a null and void point, but if the likes of the Drakh and the Dilgar players don't get the newer toys like all the other bigger kids, interest in those races may dwindle.

I'm not a 40K player anymore - the stuff got too expensive, and someone already mentioned the flaws with the GW business model, but at least ALL of the races got something new every once in a while - it would be nice if the Dilgar and Drakh got the same respect as the other races.

 

[WickedE]

Meh. I could see the Drakh and Dilgar being covered in a Smaller Armageddon Supplement next year, right along with one or two new fleet books, plus more scenarios perhaps. An EA/Drakh War supplement, mayhaps!

 

[Nomad]

As I understand it, Armageddon level ships are supposed to be a result of Ancient technology becoming availible to the younger races after 2261.

That would imply the Dilgar don't get ships at this level, being extinct by then...

Of course, there is nothing to stop a 'Conjectural' A-level Dilgar battleship being produced for players of unhistorical campaigns (everyone I know, self included).

 

[thePirv]

Ok, i'm joining this late because i've been away on business for a week and had no internet access.



So, First off, Drakh players get screwed with severe supply problems. Then we get screwed in the Armageddon stakes.

I wanna play in a tournament. This means i need SFOS (which doesn't feature Drakh), the Drakh book and now Armageddon (which also hasn't got dick about the Drakh in it) just to be able to play. That means i have to buy 2 books that have NO meaning to me, just to be able to play in a tournament?

Bollocks to that.

I thought the whole point of releasing new races/fleets was to expand the game, but what the hell is the point if you're not gonna support them once they're released.

And as to the points made that perhaps Dilgar and Drakh will get something in a mini-Arma supplement. Piss off. That means we get screwed out of even more cash just to be able to enjoy the game.

Way to really fuck a lot of people off mongoose!

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Meh. I could see the Drakh and Dilgar being covered in a Smaller Armageddon Supplement next year, right along with one or two new fleet books, plus more scenarios perhaps. An EA/Drakh War supplement, mayhaps!

Or possibly just ACtA Second Edition.

Wulf

 

[thePirv]

Meh. I could see the Drakh and Dilgar being covered in a Smaller Armageddon Supplement next year, right along with one or two new fleet books, plus more scenarios perhaps. An EA/Drakh War supplement, mayhaps!

Or possibly just ACtA Second Edition.

Wulf

Which still leaves Dilgar and Drakh players with F**K all new for over a year.

Yes, both are very new races, but that's no excuse to just pretend they don't exist!

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Yes, both are very new races, but that's no excuse to just pretend they don't exist!

No, both are old races, now gone from the universe. They (or anyway they as races) don't exist anymore.

Good job you don't play WW2 games, no-one's invented anything new there for 60 years... there can't be ANYONE playing games that neglected... :roll:

Wulf

 

[TenaciousB]

Yes, both are very new races, but that's no excuse to just pretend they don't exist!

No, both are old races, now gone from the universe. They (or anyway they as races) don't exist anymore.

Neither do the Shadows, Vorlons and the other Ancients, yet Armageddon caters for them.

 

[Burger]

As I understand it, Armageddon level ships are supposed to be a result of Ancient technology becoming availible to the younger races after 2261.

No, Armageddon Level is simply a priority system used to judge how "good" a ship is, and to match it up against ships of other races evenly. No reason not to have a Dilgar A-level ship; it doesn't have to be new and high tech, it just has to be big and powerful.

 

[thePirv]

Wulf...

News flash. I'm not talking from a historical point of view, or even a fluff point of view. I'm talking about supporting the races that have been included in the game so as not to alienate a part of the fanbase.

Yes, Dilgar and Drakh may not be big in terms of sales and may not be relevant to fluff, but they are relevant in terms of fans of ACTA getting the shaft because Mongoose are not supporting these races.

 

[TenaciousB]

News flash. I'm not talking from a historical point of view, or even a fluff point of view. I'm talking about supporting the races that have been included in the game so as not to alienate a part of the fanbase.

Yes, Dilgar and Drakh may not be big in terms of sales and may not be relevant to fluff, but they are relevant in terms of fans of ACTA getting the shaft because Mongoose are not supporting these races.

Here, here. I don't play any other game than ACTA because I like the game. It really is as simple as that. But why should I keep supporting a game that isn't supporting me, in terms of giving me bigger and better ships just like the other races?

 

[thePirv]

News flash. I'm not talking from a historical point of view, or even a fluff point of view. I'm talking about supporting the races that have been included in the game so as not to alienate a part of the fanbase.

Yes, Dilgar and Drakh may not be big in terms of sales and may not be relevant to fluff, but they are relevant in terms of fans of ACTA getting the shaft because Mongoose are not supporting these races.

Here, here. I don't play any other game than ACTA because I like the game. It really is as simple as that. But why should I keep supporting a game that isn't supporting me, in terms of giving me bigger and better ships just like the other races?

I'm not even worried about Bigger and Better. i'm just talking about even basic support for these races.

 

[Burger]

Some cheese, to go with your whine

 

[H]

Yes, both are very new races, but that's no excuse to just pretend they don't exist!

No, both are old races, now gone from the universe. They (or anyway they as races) don't exist anymore.

Good job you don't play WW2 games, no-one's invented anything new there for 60 years... there can't be ANYONE playing games that neglected... :roll:

Wulf

When did the Drakh get wiped out of the Galaxy? The point is, pander pander pander to the EA and ISA. I actually agree the Dilgar are dead, they never reached this level, but the drakh have in the RPG, and Really, is it part of Playtester training to be so damn arsey with everyone. I notice none of the playtesters fleets ever gets a good kick in the groin that others do from time to time, and it has to be said, this kind of response is exactly what makes a lot of players think the playtesters are a bunch of jumped up over exciteable arseholes who don't really give a crap.

 

[Greg Smith]

Which still leaves Dilgar and Drakh players with F**K all new for over a year.

I'm not even worried about Bigger and Better. i'm just talking about even basic support for these races.

... but at least ALL of the races got something new every once in a while -it would be nice if the Dilgar and Drakh got the same respect as the other races.

The Drakh and Dilgar have been out for less than a year. It is Mongoose's stated policy to produce one major update a year.

The point is, pander pander pander to the EA and ISA.

Who have had exactly one supplement in 2006.

I notice none of the playtesters fleets ever gets a good kick in the groin that others do from time to time,

Apart from the ISA White Stars getting a reduction in dodge and the EA having their fleet split into three eras.

I wanna play in a tournament. This means i need SFOS (which doesn't feature Drakh), the Drakh book and now Armageddon (which also hasn't got dick about the Drakh in it) just to be able to play. That means i have to buy 2 books that have NO meaning to me, just to be able to play in a tournament?

No meaning, other than rules and the chance to be able to look at your enemy's ships and choose an appropriate strategy.

...a lot of players think the playtesters are a bunch of jumped up over exciteable arseholes who don't really give a crap.

Yep that's us.